Need To Know Info from Clifford E. Stone

This is a little bit of information that was provided to me from Clifford. Enjoy and leave your comments.

Quotes on the
UFO Phenomenon
Compiled by Rajesh Kumar, UFOEvidence.org
Quotes by scientists, leading UFO researchers, and others on the UFO phenomenon.
Includes quotes by Dr. Bernard Haisch, Dr. Steven Greer, James McDonald, Dr. Peter Sturrock, Bruce Macabee,
Stanton Friedman, Don Berliner, John Alexander, Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, Harry Truman, Margaret Mead, Lord
Hill-Norton, Francis Ridge, Leslie Kean, General Nathan Twining, Admiral Roscoe Hillenketter, Astronaut Gordon
Cooper, Lord Dowding, American Institute of Aeronatics and Astronautics, Jacques and Janine Vallee, J. Allen Hynek,
Hermann Oberth, Carl Jung, Walter Andrus, Jr., John Scheussler, Jerome Clark, Peter Davenport, George Fawcett,
Raymond Fowler, Dr. Richard Haines, Richard Hall, Michael Hesemann, Morris Jessup, Jim and Coral Lorenzen,
Donald Keyhoe, and Nick Pope.
PDF version available here
Bernard Haisch, astrophysicist, UFOSkeptic.org
“I propose that true skepticism is called for today: neither the gullible acceptance of true
belief nor the closed-minded rejection of the scoffer masquerading as the skeptic. One
should be skeptical of both the believers and the scoffers. The negative claims of
pseudo-skeptics who offer facile explanations must themselves be subject to criticism. If
a competent witness reports having seen something tens of degrees of arc in size (as
happens) and the scoffer -- who of course was not there -- offers Venus or a high
altitude weather balloon as an explanation, the requirement of extraordinary proof for an
extraordinary claim falls on the proffered negative claim as well. That kind of approach is
also pseudo-science. Moreover just being a scientist confers neither necessary
expertise nor sufficient knowledge. (I wish it did, sigh.) Any scientist who has not read a
few serious books and articles presenting actual UFO evidence should out of intellectual
honesty refrain from making scientific pronouncements. To look at the evidence and go
away unconvinced is one thing. To not look at the evidence and be convinced against it
nonetheless is another. That is not science.”
Bernard Haisch, physicist, “Be Skeptical of the Skeptics”
“Cut through the ridicule and search for factual information in most of the skeptical
commentary and one is usually left with nothing. This is not surprising. After all, how can
one rationally object to a call for scientific examination of evidence? Be skeptical of the
"skeptics."”
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Bernard Haisch, “UFOs and Mainstream Science”
“A 1977 poll of American astronomers, published in JSE, showed the following. Out of
2611 questionnaires 1356 were returned. In response to whether the UFO problem
deserved further study the replies were: 23% certainly, 30% probably, 27% percent
possibly, 17% probably not, 3% certainly not. Interestingly, there was a positive
correlation between the amount of reading done on the subject and the opinion that
further study was in order…”
“Most scientists never look at UFO evidence, which leads to their conclusion that there
is no evidence…”
“It seems from my unique vantage point as both scientist and editor of JSE that
substantial evidence exists of "something going on".”
Dr. Steven Greer, “Foundations of Interplanetary Unity”
“The evidence that at least one extraterrestrial civilization has visited Earth is extensive
both in scope and detail. In its totality it comprises a body of evidence which at the very
least supports the general assessment that extraterrestrial life has been detected, and
that a vigorous program of research and serious diplomatic initiatives is warranted.
Consider the following overview of facts:
• There are numerous daytime and night time photographs and videotapes of clearly
non-human spacecraft from all over the world; these films and videotapes have been
evaluated and deemed authentic by competent experts in optical physics and related
fields.
• There are more than 3500 military and commercial aircraft pilot reports of encounters
worldwide; many cases have corroborating radar documentation and multiple witnesses
both on the ground and in the air.
• There are more than 4000 landing trace cases from around the world.
• There are hundreds of electromagnetic cases where spacecraft have been observed
by police, military personnel and civilians to affect car engines, radios and other electric
devices.
• There are more than 100 first- and second- hand witnesses to the retrieval of an
extraterrestrial spacecraft and at least four extraterrestrial bodies from a crash which
occurred in July, 1947, 75 miles northwest of Roswell, New Mexico; written and
videotaped testimony from several first-hand witnesses who are respected military
officers have been obtained.
• There are hundreds of credible reports, many with multiple witnesses, of humanoids in
association with landed spacecraft.
• There are several multiple-witnessed events where humans have been taken on board
spacecraft.
• CSETI (The Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence) has in the past 18
months succeeded in intentionally establishing contact with extraterrestrial spacecraft,
on two occasions at very close range, and with multiple witnesses present.
• Various polls have indicated that approximately 10% of Americans (25 million people)
have seen them at close range so that details of the structure of the object can be
discerned.
• Numerous US. Government documents exist which indicate that these objects are real
and have been involved with observing Earth for several decades.
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It is an understatement to say that the time has arrived for a serious and open
international dialogue regarding the possibility of future interplanetary relations. In no
other area of human experience has so much evidence existed for so long, and yet
been attended by such a paucity of serious research and analysis - at least in the
civilian domain. While the subject matter [of UFOs] itself is extraordinary, it is the
absence of a serious human response to it that is most extraordinary.”
Scientist, (name not available)
"The discovery of other intelligent life in the universe would be the most important event
in human history. Period."
John Alexander, NIDS, “Refuting Fermi: No Evidence for Extraterrestrial Life?”
“The undeniable reality is that there are a substantial number of multi-sensor UFO cases
backed by thousands of credible witnesses. In the physical domain there are many
photos, videos, radar tracking, satellite sensor reports, landing traces including
depressions and anomalous residual radiation, electromagnetic interference, and
confirmed physiological effects. Personal observations have been made both day and
night, often under excellent visibility with some at close range. Included are reports from
multiple independent witnesses to the same event. Psychological testing of some
observers has confirmed their mentally competence. Why is none of this considered
evidence?
There are over 3000 cases reported by pilots, some of which include interference with
flight controls. On numerous occasions air traffic controllers and other radar operators
have noted unexplained objects on their scopes. So too have several astronomers and
other competent scientists reported their personal observations. Many military officials
from several countries have confirmed multi-sensor observations of UFOs. The most
senior air defense officers of Russia, Brazil, Belgium and recently a former Chief of
Naval Operations in Chile all have stated that UFOs are real. These cases and
comments are a miniscule fraction of the total body of evidence.
Of course they do not constitute irrefutable proof. However, to state there is no evidence
suggestive of intelligent extraterrestrial life simply belies the facts. Decades in duration
and global in nature, there are too many hard sensor data-points and millions of
eyewitnesses to ignore. We certainly can debate the significance of specific data and
question whether or not it establishes a causal relationship between the observations
and extraterrestrial life. However, it is only through ignorance or pomposity that one can
say no evidence exists.”
Stanton Friedman, The Case for the Extraterrestrial Origin of Flying Saucers, 1995
“Abstract: Careful review of a vast array of relevant evidence clearly leads to the
conclusion that some unidentified flying objects are intelligently controlled vehicles
whose origin is outside our solar system. All the arguments against the extraterrestrial
origin seem to be based upon false reasoning, misrepresentation of evidence, neglect of
relevant information, ignorance of relevant technology, or pseudo sophisticated
assumptions about alien appearance, motivation, or government secrecy….
The primary UFO evidence consists of UFO sighting reports, multi-witness close
encounters, still and motion pictures, radar trackings, simultaneous radar-visual
sightings, physical traces (environmental changes in dirt, vegetation, trees, etc.)
produced by UFOs, abductions by aliens of Earthlings, and very likely (in hidden
locations) crashed UFOs and preserved alien bodies. The worldwide origin of the
various data collections indicate similar experiences occurring and being reported
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independently all over the planet. The overall quality and quantity of reports is far better
than most people—especially open-minded skeptics and scientists and newspaper
reporters—are aware….
There is no doubt in my mind, after 37 years of study and investigation that the evidence
is overwhelming that planet Earth is being visited by intelligently controlled vehicles
whose origin is extraterrestrial. There are no acceptable arguments against flying saucer
reality, only people who either haven’t studied the relevant data or have a strong will not
to believe that Earth is at the bottom of the heap sociologically and technologically in our
local galactic neighborhood.”
Stanton Friedman, nuclear physicist and leading UFO researcher, author of several
books and numerous articles on UFOs.
“The evidence is overwhelming that the Earth is being visited by intelligently controlled
vehicles from off the Earth.”
“There are no good arguments to be made against the conclusion that some UFOs are
intelligently controlled vehicles from off the Earth. Some skeptics may be well
intentioned, but they are almost always ignorant of the significant scientific data
indicating UFO reality. They read the newspapers but not the solid information. They
are unaware of the myriad landing-trace cases, the multitude of “critter” reports and
Earthling abductions, the numerous large-scale scientific collections of data, the many
published scientific studies indicating that trips to nearby stars in our galactic
neighborhood are already feasible without violating the laws of physics or invoking
science fiction techniques.”
James McDonald, atmospheric physicist, leading UFO scientist in 1960’s– “UFOs:
Extraterrestrial Probes?”
“On the basis of an intensive study of the UFO problem, I believe that the
extraterrestrial-origin hypothesis must now be given extremely serious scientific
attention….
…After a year of scrutiny of highly unconventional phenomena credibly reported from all
parts of this country and [I believe] from most of the entire world, I have been driven to
consider possibilities that I'd ordinarily not give a moment's thought to in my own
personal brand of orthodoxy. It is the UFO evidence that slowly forces the diligent UFO
student to seriously consider the extraterrestrial hypothesis - evidence that I can only
describe as extraordinary in its total nature….
All over the globe persons in all walks of life, representing a wide range of educational
and cultural backgrounds, are reporting, often in the face of unpleasant ridicule,
sightings of objects that appear to be completely real objects yet have characteristics
that match nothing about which we have present knowledge….
Hoax, fraud, and fabrication account for a few but, in terms of percentage, negligible
numbers of UFO sightings. Misinterpreted meteorological and astronomical
observations and the like do account do account for lots of poor UFO reports, but
experienced investigators learn to recognize these almost at a glance and dismiss them
from further attention…
It is the detailed, close-range sightings by persons whose reliability cannot be brought
into serious question that carry great weight.
Pacing of aircraft and buzzing of cars by UFOs go on rather steadily. These cases so
strongly suggest something vaguely resembling surveillance or reconnaissance that the
student of the problem is forced to weigh the possibility that the UFOs are probes of
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some type engaged in something we would loosely call "observation."
There are many other categories of sightings suggesting the same tentative hypothesis.
How can this be? There is, in my opinion, no sensible alternative to the utterly shocking
hypothesis that the UFOs are extraterrestrial probes.
There is, in my opinion, no sensible alternative to the utterly shocking hypothesis that
the UFOs are extraterrestrial probes.”
James McDonald, Statement to House Subcommittee , 1968
“I have been studying now for about 2 years, on a rather intensive basis, the UFO
problem. I have interviewed several hundred witnesses in selected cases, and I am
astonished at what I have found.
From time to time in the history of science, situations have arisen in which a problem of
ultimately enormous importance went begging for adequate attention simply because
that problem appeared to involve phenomena so far outside the current bounds of
scientific knowledge that it was not even regarded as a legitimate subject of serious
scientific concern. That is precisely the situation in which the UFO problem now lies.
One of the principal results of my own recent intensive study of the UFO enigma is this: I
have become convinced that the scientific community, not only in this country but
throughout the world, has been casually ignoring as nonsense a matter of extraordinary
scientific importance. The attention of your Committee can, and I hope will, aid greatly in
correcting this situation. As you will note in the following, my own present opinion, based
on two years of careful study, is that UFOs are probably extraterrestrial devices
engaged in something that might very tentatively be termed "surveillance."…
If the extraterrestrial hypothesis is proved correct (and I emphasize that the present
evidence only points in that direction but cannot be said to constitute irrefutable proof),
then clearly UFOs will become a top-priority scientific problem. I believe you might agree
that, even if there were a slight chance of the correctness of that hypothesis, the UFOs
would demand the most careful attention….
To both laymen and scientists, the impressive progress that science has made towards
understanding our total environment prompts doubts that there could be machine-like
objects of entirely unconventional nature moving through our atmosphere, hovering over
automobiles, power installations, cities, and the like, yet all the while going unnoticed by
our body scientific. Such suggestions are hard to take seriously, and I assure you that,
until I had taken a close look at the evidence, I did not take them seriously. We have
managed to so let our preconceptions block serious consideration of the possibility that
some form of alien technology is operating within our midst that we have succeeded in
simply ignoring the facts. And we scientists have ignored the pleas of groups like NICAP
and APRO, who have for years been stressing the remarkable nature of the UFO
evidence. Abroad, science has reacted in precisely this same manner, ignoring as
nonsensical the report-material gathered by private groups operating outside the main
channels of science. I understand this neglect all too well; I was just one more of those
scientists who almost ignored those facts, just one more of those scientists who was
rather sure that such a situation nearly could not exist, one more citizen rather sure that
official statements must be basically meaningful on the non-existence of any substantial
evidence for the reality of UFOs. ….
My own study of the UFO problem has convinced me that we must rapidly escalate
serious scientific attention to this extraordinarily intriguing puzzle. ….
I believe that the scientific community has been seriously misinformed for twenty years
about the potential importance of UFOs.
The possibility that the Earth might be under surveillance by some high civilization in
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command of a technology far beyond ours must not be overlooked in weighing the UFO
problem. I am one of those who lean strongly towards the extraterrestrial hypothesis. I
arrived at that point by a process of elimination of other alternative hypotheses, not by
arguments based on what I would call "irrefutable proof." I am convinced that the
recurrent observations by reliable citizens here and abroad over the past twenty years
cannot be brushed aside as nonsense, but rather need to be taken extremely seriously
as evidence that some phenomenon is going on which we simply do not understand.”
James McDonald, letter to Mr. U. Thant, Secretray General of the United Nations,
June 1967
“I believe that it is necessary to take into very serious account the assumption that these
strange objects constitute some sort of extraterrestrial probes. Before I had undertaken
a personal study of the problem, I was willing to grant credit to such an assumption.
After one year of intensive study, I must still regard it only as an assumption, but I must
stress that my research strongly pushes me to admit that this assumption is the only
acceptable one as for now if one wants to account for the utterly amazing number of
observations at low altitude and short distance which are now recorded in the whole
world and which relate to objects that have the appearance of machines.
To the numerous serious investigators of the UFO problem, it appears conceivable that
something in the nature of a global surveillance by UFOs has been underway in recent
years. If this view is correct, then our present ignorance of the purpose and plan of such
surveillance must be urgently replaced by maximal understanding of what is going on…
The present ignorance, the present neglect and the present mocking remarks, all
constitute regrettable features of our collective attitudes with regard to what can be, for
all the people of the world, an affair of utter importance.
-----------------
During twenty years, there was a persisting and intriguing flood of reports, coming from
countries located in all the parts of the world, relating to what we finally called the
unidentified flying objects (UFOS). In all these reports, whatever their geographical
origin, the nature of the reported objects appears to be primarily similar.
During the last twelve months spent, I pursued an intensive examination of the scientific
aspects of the UFO problem, dealing with reports originating within the limits of the
United States. After I interviewed the key witnesses to dozen important cases distributed
over the whole 1947-1967 period; after having studied, with personal of the U.S. Air
Force, official methods of investigation; and after having personally checked a great
number of other sources of information, I concluded that, far from being a stupid
problem, the problem of the UFOS is a problem of an extraordinary scientific interest.
My own studies led me to reject the opinion according to which they are only natural
atmospheric phenomena or misinterpreted astronomical phenomena; in this respect a
number of official explanations are almost absurdly erroneous. It is not possible
anymore to explain all these observations with assumptions calling upon the products of
a technology of avant-garde or experimental secret craft, with assumptions of
mystification, fraud or trickery, or with psychological assumptions. Each one of these
assumptions intervenes indeed in a great number of cases, but there still remains an
astonishing number of other reports, submitted by observers highly worthy of faith
during the two last decades, which cannot receive such a satisfactory explanation. I
believe that this vast residue of reports, which amounts now to hundreds and perhaps
thousands of cases, requires the attention of the most eminent scientists of the world.
It is my present opinion, based on what I believe to be a sufficient scientific examination
of excluding mutually assumptions, that the most probable assumption to account for
the phenomenon of the UFOS is that these are a certain type of monitoring space
probes, of extraterrestrial origin.”
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James McDonald, “Are UFOs Extraterrestrial Surveillance Craft?”, talk give at
American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, 1968. / Ronald Story, Encyclopedia)
“If there were even a slim possibility that the Earth were under extraterrestrial
surveillance in any form, that would be a matter of the greatest scientific importance,
warranting the most rigorours investigation. In fact, the evidence that seems to point to
the conclusion that UFOs could be such devices is far from negligible; yet because of
the history fo the official and scientific response to the earlier UFO reports, we continue
to see mainly neglect or ridicule on this intriguing question.
After examining around a thousand UFO reports and directly interviewing several
hundred witnesses in selected UFO cases of outstanding interest, and after weighing
alternative hypotheses, I find myself driven steadily further toward the position that the
extraterrestrial hypothesis is, of course, not original with me; it has been urged for many
years by persons knowledgeable with respect to the UFO problem, who spoke from
outside scientific circles. Our collective failure to examine scientific aspects of the UFO
problem will, I fear, be held against the scientific community when the full dimensions of
the UFO evidence come to be recognized.
The type of UFO reports that are most intriguing, and point most directly to an
extraterrestrial hypothesis, are close-range sightings of machine-like objects of
unconventional nature and unconventional performance characteristics, seen at low
altitudes, and sometimes even on the ground. The general public is entirely unaware of
the large number of such reports that are coming from credible witnesses because
ridicule and scoffing have made most witnesses reluctant to report openly such unusual
incidents. When one starts searching for such cases, their numbers are quite
astonishing. Also, such sightings appear to be occurring all over the globe.
The sooner we take a serious new stance and confront the UFO question with adequate
scientific talent and staffing, the less embarrassing will be the ultimate admission that
we have been overlooking a problem of potentially enormous scientific importance to
humanity.”
Dr. Margaret Mead, world-renowned anthropologist, "UFOs - Visitors from Outer
Space?,"
"There are unidentified flying objects. That is, there are a hard core of cases - perhaps
20 to 30 percent in different studies - for which there is no explanation... We can only
imagine what purpose lies behind the activities of these quiet, harmlessly cruising
objects that time and again approach the earth. The most likely explanation, it seems to
me, is that they are simply watching what we are up to." (Mead, Margaret, "UFOs -
Visitors from Outer Space?," Redbook, vol. 143, September 1974.)
Leslie Kean, journalist, UFO researcher, “Science and the Failure To Investigate
Unidentified Aerial Phenomena”
“Unidentified aerial phenomena, otherwise known as UFOs, are real, not the stuff of
science fiction. Something for which there is no scientific explanation has been
observed in America’s (and the world’s) air space for over fifty-five years. Trained
observers -- pilots, air traffic controllers, radar operators, astronauts, military personnel -
- and government agencies have reported and documented spectacular events visually,
photographically, and on
radar. Many accounts are available in the literature.”
Lord Hill-Norton, Chief of Defense Staff, Ministry of Defense, Great Britain (1971-
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73);
”The evidence that there are objects which have been seen in our atmosphere, and
even on terra firma, that cannot be accounted for either as man-made objects or as any
physical force or effect known to our scientists seems to me to be overwhelming… A
very large number of sightings have been vouched for by persons whose credentials
seem to me unimpeachable. It is striking that so many have been trained observers,
such as police officers and airline or military pilots. Their observations have in many
instances—though by no menas a majority—been supported by technical means such
as radar or, even more convincingly, by visible evidence of the condition of the
observers or –and this is common to many events---interference with electrical
apparatus of one sort or another…. It is difficult to credit that they have all been either
lying or hallucinating.
From the earliest days of the modern outbreak of sightings some forty years ago, there
is a quite remarkable similarity between the descriptions given by observers of the flying
vehicles. It is the more remarkable that there have been tens of thousands of these
reports, from observers who range who range from illiterate peasants in Argentina and
Spain to people with Ph.D.s in other countries and they have all been given
spontaneously—which has led to the generic term “flying saucer.” It must be more than
a coincidence….
“There have been thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of sightings and encounters,
physical results and of the latter, by people all over the world whose evidence on any
other subject would be accepted without question. There have been major
investigations lasting thirty or forty years by the governments of the USA, Russia and
France, for certain, and probably Britain and other countries. At the end of it all—
today—we have no hard official information to weigh against some hundreds of books
on the subject by private individuals or groups of individuals.”
Don Berliner, UFO researcher, author, FUFOR (Fund for UFO Research), “Is There
a Case for UFO’s?”
”If every UFO report could be convincingly credited to some conventional astronomical
or atmospheric phenomenon, there would be no UFO mystery. It is precisely because
so many UFO reports cannot logically be blamed on stars, planets, satellites, airplanes,
balloons, etc., that a UFO mystery has existed since at least the mid-1940s.
The most convincing UFO reports were produced in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s by
airline pilots, military pilots and ex-military pilots. These men had the training and the
experience to be able to distinguish between normal sky sights and highly abnormal
sights. They knew what airplanes looked like, and what meteors looked like, having
seen them many times. Their visual observations were frequently supported by radar
data which showed essentially the same thing. They were therefore able, on many
occasions, to methodically eliminate conventional phenomena from consideration when
trying to identify UFOs.
In those same decades, most UFO sightings were made in the daytime and frequently
at close range, when shapes and surface features could be distinguished, thus making
positive identification of normal sights easier and the descriptions of unusual sights
more detailed. When all normal explanations had been eliminated, the witnesses could
concentrate on those aspects of the experience which were most abnormal.
These abnormal aspects included the shapes of UFOs and their behavior. Most of the
UFOs seen in the daytime were said to have had simple geometric shapes--discs, ovals,
spheres, cylinders--and surfaces that looked like metal. Such shapes are not only
nonexistent among known aircraft, but contrary to all known theories of flight, in most
cases offering control and performance disadvantages rather than advantages.
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Even more unusual were the specifics of their flight performance: silent hovering, silent
high-speed flight, extreme acceleration, supersonic flight at low altitude without sonic
booms, and violent, very high-g maneuvers. The actions of many UFOs have suggested
that they fly independently of the air and even of the force of gravity. The
accomplishment of these maneuvers has been among the major goals of the world's
aerospace industry for decades.
On the basis of their appearance, behavior and frequent well-kept, tight formation flights,
we must face the possibility that some UFOs may be manufactured, high-tech
vehicles….
At first glance, the idea that some UFOs may be vehicles from outside the Earth seems
utterly preposterous, the baseless result of wishful thinking by highly unscientific minds.
When authoritative reports of radical-design craft having spectacular performance are
viewed in the light of a stream of astrobiological discoveries, the possibility that some
UFOs are alien does not seem quite so farfetched. Serious-minded scientists in
astronomy and other disciplines estimate there could be billions of planets in the
universe, and millions that could harbor life. If even a few of those planets were
occupied by technological civilizations, their ability (if not desire) to explore other worlds,
such as ours, must be a possibility.
Hundreds of thousands of UFO sightings have been made by persons in all walks of life,
in all parts of the world. Tens of thousands of UFO reports have been made to
governmental and private agencies in the past 55+ years. Thousands of these reports
have withstood careful scrutiny and appear to represent real objects having a novel
nature.
Patterns of these UFOs' appearance and behavior suggest a limited range of sizes and
shapes of unidentified craft, despite the often-desperate efforts on the part of the
American and other governments to discount them as nothing more substantial than
mistakes made by naïve individuals. Their performance, observed repeatedly by expert
witnesses, remains as far off the scale today as it was in the 1940s.
If even one of these unidentified UFOs turns out to be an alien craft, the impact on all
aspects of our nation's culture--economic, political, personal--will be limited only by what
is learned from an open, serious, objective study of the subject.”
Don Berliner, “What UFOs Are and Are Not”
“For more than 50 years, men and women around the world have reported sights in the
sky that are strange to their experience and understanding. Inasmuch as many of these
sights appeared to be solid objects having impressive performance, they have become
known as Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs) or, colloquially, flying saucers. Their
positive identification is one of the major public/scientific challenges of the era, with a
significant number of these sights so far defying all reasonable efforts at classification.”
Francis Ridge, UFO researcher, site coordinator, NICAP (National Investigations
Committee on Aerial Phenomena)
“The following is what makes UFOlogy worth pursuing and is not intended for the closeminded.
We already have:
1) Millions of sightings worldwide and a hundred-thousand-plus sightings are on
computer (UFOCAT).
2) 3,000-plus sightings from aircraft (Dr. Richard Haines).
3) 489 radar cases, many radar/visual (Dominique Weinstein); 363 radar cases, 76 as
R/V (USAF records alone).
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4) 5600 trace cases documented, 4104 involving UFO visual sightings (CUFOS).
5) Over 500 cases of E-M effects associated with UFO sightings (CUFOS) and 185 E-M
cases documented involving UFOs near aircraft (Dr. Richard Haines).
6) Hundreds, if not thousands, of excellent close encounters by credible obswervers
whose testimony in court would be taken at face value.
7) About 4,000 (701 originally) UNKNOWNS listed in Project Blue Book files.”
Dr. Peter A. Sturrock, Professor of Space Science and Astrophysics and Deputy
Director of the Center for Space Sciences and Astrophysics at Stanford University
(Survey of American Astronomical Society)
"The definitive resolution of the UFO enigma will not come about unless and until the
problem is subjected to open and extensive scientific study by the normal procedures of
established science.
“In their public statements (but not necessarily in their private statements), scientists
express a generally negative attitude towards the UFO problem, and it is interesting to
try to understand this attitude. Most scientists have never had the occasion to confront
evidence concerning the UFO phenomenon.”
Report on a Survey of the Membership of the American Astronomical Society
Concerning the UFO Phenomenon
“To judge from this survey of the membership of the American Astronomical Society, it
appears that: (a) scientists have thoughts and views but no answers concerning the
UFO problem; (b) Although there is no consensus, more scientists are of the opinion
that the problem certainly or probably deserves scientific study than are of the opinion
that it certainly or probably does not; and (c) a small fraction (of order 5%) are likely to
report varied and puzzling observations, not unlike so-called "UFO reports" made by the
general public. As is the case with reports from the public, many may be unusual
observations of familiar objects, but some seem to be definitely strange.
These results are consistent with the findings of an earlier but more limited survey of
members of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (Sturrock, 1974b).
Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter, first Director of the CIA (1947-50), NICAP board
member
"Unknown objects are operating under intelligent control... It is imperative that we learn
where UFOs come from and what their purpose is... " (Maccabee, Bruce, "What The
Admiral Knew: UFO, MJ-12 and R. Hillenkoetter," International UFO Reporter,
Nov./Dec., 1986.)
"It is time for the truth to be brought out in open Congressional hearings. Behind the
scenes high ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs. But
through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying
objects are nonsense." (Statement in a NICAP news release, February 27, 1960.)
President Harry S. Truman
"I can assure you that flying saucers, given that they exist, are not constructed by any
power on earth." (April 4, 1950, White House Press Conference.)
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President Gerald Ford, 1966:
" I have taken special interest in these accounts [of UFOs].. I think there may be
substance to some of these reports… I think we owe it to the people to establish
credibility regarding UFOs and to produce the greatest possible enlightenment on this
subject." (Committee on Armed Services of the House of Representatives, Eighty-Ninth
Congress, Second Session, Hearing on Unidentified Flying Objects, April 5, 1966.)
President Jimmy Carter, during his election campaign in May 1976:
" I am convinced that UFOs exist because I've seen one... " (The National Enquirer,
June 8, 1976, "The Night I Saw a UFO." Statement confirmed by White House special
assistant media liaison, Jim Purks, in an April 20, 1979 letter.)
In October of '69, Jimmy Carter witnessed a UFO. From "Above Top Secret" (book):
During his election campaign of 1976 he told the following to reporters:
"It was the darndest thing I've ever seen. It was big, it was very bright, it changed colors
and it was about the size of the moon.. We watched it for ten minutes, but none of us
could figure out what it was. One thing's for sure, I'll never make fun of people who say
they've seen unidentified objects in the sky.”
Air Chief Marshal Lord Dowding, Commander-in-Chief of RAF Fighter
Command during the Battle of Britain, made the following comment to the press in 1954:
"More than 10,000 sightings have been reported, the majority of which cannot be
accounted for by any 'scientific' explanation... I am convinced that these objects do exist
and that they are not manufactured by any nation on earth. I can therefore see no
alternative to accepting the theory that they come from some extraterrestrial
source." (Sunday Dispatch, London, July 11, 1954.)
American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics UFO
Subcommittee.
"From a scientific and engineering standpoint, it is unacceptable to simply ignore
substantial numbers of unexplained observations...
AIAA Committee Looks at UFO Problem, AIAA UFO Subcommittee, Astronautics and
Aeronautics, December 1968, p. 12
“The Committee has made a careful examination of the present state of the UFO issue
and has concluded that the controversy cannot be resolved without further study in a
quantitative scientific manner and that it deserves the attention of the engineering and
scientific community.”
Dr. Jacques Vallee, Astrophysicist, leading UFO researcher, author
"Skeptics, who flatly deny the existence of any unexplained phenomenon in the name of
'rationalism,' are among the primary contributors to the rejection of science by the
public. People are not stupid and they know very well when they have seen something
out of the ordinary. When a so-called expert tells them the object must have been the
moon or a mirage, he is really teaching the public that science is impotent or unwilling to
pursue the study of the unknown." (Vallee, J., Confrontations, New York: Ballantine
Books, 1990.)
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Jacques and Janine Vallee, from the introduction to ‘Challenge to Science: The
UFO Enigma’, 1966
…The fact that since 1946 numerous persons in all countries have made detailed
reports of events they regard as strange, mysterious, sometimes even terrifying,
deserves attention. While many of the reports can be traced to natural events, we
intend to demonstrate that, after the inevitable errors and the obvious hoaxes are
eliminated, the reports reveal common characterstics, possess a high degree of internal
coherence, and appear to be the result of the witnesses’ exposure to a set of unusual
circumstances.
John E. Mack, M.D., Professor of Psychiatry, Harvard University, Pulitzer Prize
winning author
"I will stress once again that we do not know the source from which the UFOs or the
alien beings come (whether or not, for example, they originate in the physical universe
as modern astrophysics has described it). But they manifest in the physical world and
bring about definable consequences in that domain." (Mack, J., Abduction - Human
Encounters With Aliens, New York: Scribners, 1994.)
J. Allen Hynek, leading UFO scientist, from the foreword to Challenge to Science:
The UFO Enigma, J. & J. Vallee,1966
“Over the past eighteen years I have acted as a scientific consultant to the U.S. Air
Force on the subject of unidentified flying objects – UFO’s. As a consequence of my
work on the voluminous air force files and, to a greater extent, of personal investigation
of many puzzling cases and interviews with witnesses of good repute, I have long been
aware that the subject of UFO’s could not be dismissed as mere nonsense.”
Bruce Maccabee, optical physicist, UFO researcher/scientist, “Still in
Default”( Proceedings of the 1986 MUFON International Symposium)
“For nearly 40 [more than 50] years, the science establishment has ignored the UFO
problem, relegating it to the domain of “true believers and mental imcompetents” (a.k.a.
"kooks and nuts" [according to the former editor of Applied Optics magazine]). Scientists
have participated in a "self-cover-up" by refusing to look at the credible and wellreported
data. Furthermore, some
of those few scientists who have studied UFO data have published explanations which
are unconvincing or just plain wrong and have "gotten away with it" because most of the
rest of the scientific community has not cared enough to analyze these explanations.
The general rejection of the scientific validity of UFO sightings has made it difficult to
publish analyses of good sightings [in refereed journals of establishment science].”
Professor Hermann Oberth, German rocket expert
"It is my thesis that flying saucers are real and that they are space ships from another
solar system. I think that they possibly are manned by intelligent observers who are
members of a race that may have been investigating our earth for centuries.” (Oberth
H., "Flying Saucers Come From A Distant World," The American Weekly, October 24,
1954.)
"It is my conclusion that UFOs do exist, are very real, and are spaceships from another
or more than one solar system. They are possibly manned by intelligent observers who
are members of a race carrying out long-range scientific investigations of our earth for
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centuries." (UFO News, 1974.)
Dr. Carl Gustav Jung, Pioneer of psychiatry, 1954
"A purely psychological explanation is ruled out... the discs show signs of intelligent
guidance, by quasi-human pilots..." ("Dr. Carl Jung on Unidentified Flying Objects,"
Flying Saucer Review, Vol. 1, No. 2, 1955.)
Gordon Cooper, Astronaut (Mercury), November 9, 1978:
"I believe that these extra-terrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from
other planets, which obviously are a little more technically advanced than we are here
on earth.”
“Every day, in the USA, our radar instruments capture objects of form and composition
unknown to us. And there are thousands of witness reports and a quantity of documents
to prove this.”
General Nathan D. Twining, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (1957-1960).
“The phenomena reported is something real and not visionary or fictitious”
James MacDonald’s, oral statement to House Committee on Science and
Astronautics at July 29, 1968:
I have been studying now for about 2 years, on a rather intensive basis, the UFO
problem. I have interviewed several hundred witnesses in selected cases, and I am
astonished at what I have found.
Walter Andrus, Jr., former International Director MUFON (Mutual UFO Network,
the largest civilian UFO organization in the U.S.), 1970-2000. (Ronald Story,
Encyclopedia)
“After personally interviewing several hundred witnesses to UFO sightings, reviewing
the 1,600 UFO landing-trace cases compiled by Ted Phillips, and reading the 1,800
humanoid or entity cases collected by Ted Bloecher, my initial conclusion is that our
Earth is being visited by entities from an advanced intelligence in their spacecraft
conducting a surveillance of life on this planet.”
Jerome Clark, CUFOS (Center for UFO Studies) (Ronald Story, Encyclopedia)
“After a lifetime in this subject, I have concluded that the extraterrestrial hypothesis is
one reasonable tentative approach to putting the best-documented and most puzzling
UFO reports into a scientifically defensible conceptual framework. By such reports I
mean those with credible multiple or independent witnesses, instrumented observations,
and physical evidence.”
Peter Davenport, Director, NUFORC (National UFO Reporting Center) (Ronald
Story, Encyclopedia)
“The proponents [of UFOs] offer up impressive quantities of principally eyewitness data,
which although largely subjective and circumstantial in nature, is nevertheless quite
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intriguing…. Many of the high-quality sighting reports involve certain objective aspects,
which, to an open-minded bystander, are quite impressive.
As a full-time, and serious-minded, UFO investigator, I strongly side with the
proponents. It seems indisputable that the phenomenon is real, and that it falls outside
the scope of “normal” human experience.
Strong evidence suggests that we are dealing with a phenomenon that is being caused
by palpable, solid objects whose characteristics are not of human design, and whose
behavior is suggestive of intelligent control.”
Scott Corrales, leading UFO researcher in Latin America, editor of the journal
‘Inexplicata’ (on UFO reports in Latin America) (Ronald Story, Encyclopedia)
“The UFO phenomenon is undoubtedly real and represents one of humanity’s greatest
concerns, yet one that it has steadily chosen to ignore over the years, largely out of
complacency.”
George Fawcett, UFO researcher (Ronald Story, Encyclopedia)
“It has been my firm belief, based on my research and investigations over the past half
century, that UFOs and their occupants, which I have named “UFOnauts,” are both real.
These non-human occupants and their craft continue to be a part of an ever-growing
global enigma.
I have found there are real objects under in intelligent control being seen on the ground
and in our skies worldwire. The unknowns have varied over the decades from 22
percent in my own civilian files, 30 percent in the University of Colorda Condon
Committee scientific studies, to at least 40 percent (recently revised) found in the U.S.
Air Force Project Blue Book military investigations. This is not acceptable, no matter
who is doing the investigations.
The fact that the UFOs and UFOnauts use advanced scientific devices and
extraordinary powers (reported by many trained and highly qualified witnesses as
psychich experiences) indicates a highly developed intelligence and scientific
technology at work continues to give confirmation to my position. UFOs continue to
represent a challenge to science, religion, and society.”
Raymond Fowler, veteran UFO researcher, author of eight books on UFOs (Ronald
Story)
“After years of study and personal on-site investigation of UFO reports, I am certain that
there is more than ample high-quality observational evidence from highly trained and
reliable lay witnesses to indicate that there are unidentified machine-like objects under
intelligent control operating in our atmosphere. Such evidence in some cases is
supported by anomalous physical effects upon the witnesses, electrical devices, and the
environment, as well as by instrumentation such as radar and Geiger counters.”
Stanton Friedman, nuclear physicist and leading UFO researcher, author of several
books and numerous articles on UFOs.
“The evidence is overwhelming that the Earth is being visited by intelligently controlled
vehicles from off the Earth.”
“There are no good arguments to be made against the conclusion that some UFOs are
intelligently controlled vehicles from off the Earth. Some skeptics may be well
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intentioned, but they are almost always ignorant of the significant scientific data
indicating UFO reality. They read the newspapers but not the solid information. They
are unaware of the myriad landing-trace cases, the multitude of “critter” reports and
Earthling abductions, the numerous large-scale scientific collections of data, the many
published scientific studies indicating that trips to nearby stars in our galactic
neighborhood are already feasible without violating the laws of physics or invoking
science fiction techniques.”
Richard Haines, NASA scientist, UFO researcher, author of several books on
UFOs, expert on pilot UFO sightings
“Although I do not yet have enough reliable information concerning the relevant
characteristics of the UFO phenomenon with which to form a scientific judgment of its
“core” identity, I do believe that the phenomenon is objectively real; i.e., I believe that
the many thousands of eyewitnesses around the world are experiencing UFO
phenomenon in a manner very similar to the way any other human with normal sensory
capabilities would perceive it if they happened to be present.”
Richard Hall, veteran UFO researcher, author of “UFO Evidence” and other books.
“Among the hundreds of so-called “UFO reports” each year, a sizable fraction of those
clearly observed by reputable witnesses remain unexplained—and difficult to explain in
conventional terms. There is a modicum of physical evidence, radar cases, residual
effects, and some films—and photographs in support of the unexplained cases.
Collectively, these cases constitute a genuine scientific mystery, badly in need of wellsupported,
systematic investigation.”
Michael Hesemann, one of Europe’s leading UFO researchers
“After investigating the UFO phenomenon all over the world, after studying thousands of
pages of released government documents, and interviewing eyewitnesses and insiders,
including generals, intelligence officers, cosmonauts and astronauts, military and
commercial pilots, I do not have the shadow of a doubt anymore that we are indeed
visited by extraterrestrial intelligences. The evidence just does not allow another
conclusion.”
We have to learn to deal with this situation and prepare for contact. Studying the
behavior pattern of the phenomenon, I came to the conclusion that they are neither
friend nor foe, but study our planet and civilization from a mainly scientific perspective.
They are as curious to learn more about us, as we would love to study other human and
humanoid civilizations…
A contact with an extraterrestrial civilization is the greatest challenge for mankind in the
Third Millennium. We would finally realize that we are indeed not alone, what could
cause a new Copernican revolution, a quantum leap in our thinking and perspective.
We would finally realize that we are one mankind and all the small differences which
separate humans from each other today—nationality, race, religion—would disappear.
Only together can mankind explore the universe, our true home and destiny.
Morris Jessup, author of several pioneering books on the UFO phenomenon in the
1950s.
“There is an overwhelming mass of authentic evidence which can be cited as: (1) direct
observation, (2) indirect observation, and (3) supporting evidence or indication….
Reliable people have been seeing the phenomenon known as flying saucers for a
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thousand years and more. There are good reports as far back as 1500 B.C. and
before. Thousands of people have seen some kind of navigable contraptions in the sky,
and some have sworn it under oath.
I cannot agree with any astronomer who insists that all of these things are mirages,
planets, clouds, or illusions. The majority of the people are articulate enough to tell their
stories and sincere enough to make depositions before notaries public. Even scientists
concede that these folk saw something.”
Donald Keyhoe, former director of NICAP (National Investigations Committee on
Aerial Phenomenon – one of the 2 leading UFO organizations in the 1950’s and 1960’s),
author of several bestselling books on UFOs
“During my long investigation of these strange objects, I have seen many reports
verified by Air Force Intelligence, detailed accounts by Air Force pilots, radar operators,
and other trained observers proving the UFOs are high-speed craft superior to anything
built on Earth.”
Coral Lorenzen, founder of APRO, author
“The most popular theory as to their identity and origin is the extraterrestrial hypothesis,
and in view of the evidence currently available, it seems to be the most sensible.
Thos individuals (generally scientists) who dismiss the UFO problem without examining
the data are very remiss. One has only to see the distress and wonderment of a UFO
witness to realize that something is afoot on this globe we call Earth.
There are probably several races of intelligent beings in our galaxy alone who have
solved the problem of propulsion which would make visitation to this planet very
possible. Man does not like to accept this possibility because his ego gets in the way of
his reason.
However, the thousands of reports of UFOs in the sky, on the ground, and accompanied
by humanoid but alien-appearing occupants, indicate that a careful, methodical, and indepth
study of the Earth and its inhabitants is under way.”
Jim Lorenzen, founder and director, APRO, author
“At present, utilizing the principal of parsimony, my ‘investigative assumption’ is still (as
it has been since 1952) that we are dealing with extraterrestrial visitations as the central
core of the problem.”
Bruce Maccabee, optical physicist, UFO researcher, author
“From my studies of old and recent reports, and from direct involvement with several
UFO investigations, I have become convinced that there is something real and new
behind the UFO phenomenon.”
Nick Pope, official government researcher on UFOs for British Ministry of Defense,
author
“On the basis of my offical research and investigation into UFO sightings and reports of
alien contact, I am personally convinced that intelligent extraterrestrial are visiting
Earth. I say this on the basis of the data available to me at the Ministry of Defense, both
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in terms of the historic records and the several hundred new cases that I investigated
each year.
…There was a hard core of cases that defied any conventional explanation and involved
craft capable of speeds and maneuvers beyond the capabilities of our own technology.
I was particularly interested in UFO sightings that could be correlated by radar and in
reports where the witnesses were military personnel; such cases were directly
responsible for my gradual conversion from skeptic to believer.”
John Schuessler, director MUFON (Mutual UFO Network, largest UFO organization
in U.S.)
“After years of amassing information about Unconventional Flying Objects (UFOs) I
have come to the conclusion that we are dealing with a very complex mystery on an
international scale.”
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Exopolitics: The study of contact and relations between humanity and extraterrestrial civilzations.
Interview with Clifford Stone about crash retrievals and aliens.
Interview with Clifford Stone about crash retrievals and aliens.
with the help of his collaborator Joseph Zeromski.
by Paola Leopizzi Harris
September 2008
Cliff, Tell us about Aliens who look like us. Can you repeat the story you told me about their living in Texas among
Humans.
PH: The family from Texas, they said they look like us, right?
CS: Yes.
Joe
Zeromski-Clifford Stone-Kevin Domzalski
Paola-
Clifford Stone-Robert Dean
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PH: Did you say a mother, father and two boys?
CS: Mother, father and son.
PH: And they look like us. You don’t know where they came from; you just know they were aliens.
CS: I wanted to get security clearance, so I was talking to the Security Clearance Operations Officer. I didn’t know I
already had a security clearance, but all these things I was doing required a security clearance, and I didn’t have one, as far
as I knew. So I went and talked to him. He told me a story about when they had this hurricane in 1977 or 1978. He said it
destroyed the whole community. And this one young man saw a young girl very upset by this, and he thought he could cheer
her up and let her know that there’s other life out there. So he said to her, would you like to see the family’s flying saucer?
And she starts to smile. So he said, I will show you the craft that’s in the barn. So the next day they went over, the whole
family was gone, and there were these Air Force guys there. And they left. But I can tell you because I was involved in the
operation in California.
PH: When you hear a story like this, Cliff, do you ever wonder if there are other situations like this?
CS: Oh, there are.
PH: There are. And there’s no way we can know, can we?
CS: Right, there’s no way.
PH: Because I wanted to tell the world, Cliff, that they’re not all just greys. So when you say they look just like
people, all that most people have in mind when they think of ETS is the greys. They can’t imagine greys with
families and children. They don’t know that there are human-type aliens. That’s why I asked you the question.
CS: Some of them look like us, but all of them have an aspect that – I don’t understand it completely, but it’s what you’d
call alter-dimensional. But they have families, just like us. And one thing it’s hard to tell anybody, is that they accept the
existence of what we call God. We are slowly approaching that time when we will be able to scientifically prove that
something survives physical death. Once that happens, we will be well on our way to a greater understanding of that which
we call God.
PH: Did you ever hear of other beings among us?
CS: Oh, yeah. If your child comes to you and says he has friends, and you can’t see those friends, and he insists they’re
not imaginary, then take a look at him. Don’t take him to a child psychologist or someone like that, because all they’re going
to do is say there’s nothing there. That’s not going to make his friends go away.
** Enter Joe
PH: Your name is…
JZ: Joseph Zeromski
PH: And you’ve known Clifford Stone for some time?
JZ: Yes, I’ve know Clifford for about ten years. I met him in Roswell, and being an aerospace engineer, engineers want
to know the truth. So after his showing me certain documents and different information that he had, photographs, etc., I did
some research on my own and he is definitely the real person.
PH: He couldn’t possibly have made this up.
JZ: No, because being an aerospace engineer, I looked at it more scientifically, how the craft would travel from one
galaxy to another using wormhole technology, I checked with different national societies and other sites, and this technology
definitely does exist. This is something Clifford talks about, and you can’t make it up.
PH: He is also very emotionally involved in it.
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JZ: Yes, very emotionally involved. When he talked about how he helped one escape, how he had a friendship with one
called Corona, you could see in his eyes that he really did talk to Corona and you actually find out about their lifestyle.
PH: And when he talked to them, it was always telepathic, right?
JZ: Yes, because some of them you could talk to because they were like you and me, in human form, and some of them
I believe they’re here on Earth and they’re concerned about us blowing ourselves up. They’ve said so many times that they
wonder why we’re doing these things to ourselves like crashing airplanes into buildings, suicide, and all that. They’re more
spiritually evolved.
PH: We were talking about over fifty different types of aliens that are here.
JZ: Some of them are just pure energy.
PH: Some of them could have intentions of their own, which we would not agree with. I don’t believe in evil
aliens, but they may have an agenda of their own.
JZ: Some of them like to tease us, they like to fly around our jet fighters and try to get them to chase them, like they’re
playing a game of cat and mouse. They’re mischievous, but not evil. In every race or culture, you have some like that.
PH: Could you explain the twelve crash retrievals that Clifford says he was involved in, all in different countries?
JZ: I just want to say one thing, that when you talk about crash retrievals, not all of them crashed. Some of them were
landings. Some were actual contact. What people don’t see is that there were a lot of landings that were controlled by our
governments and by them, in terms of communication. Clifford and I always laughed about that, like they can’t fly. They’ve
got these amazing aircraft, and they just keep crashing them?
So these are twelve different situations that Clifford was involved in, and these are either retrieval, or face-to-face
communication, or landings. So these are twelve different situations that I know of, that Clifford talks about. As an engineer, I
do more research and try to put more science into it, because if you just say, something happened at the Pentagon, then it’s
like, well, what do you mean? So I go into more detail. But also, because I have a security clearance, I’m very careful that
when we do talk, I don’t let anything out because of that. He has a clearance too, and he’ll tell you that he’ll never disclose
anything that will show the proof if it’s going to violate the security, just like me.
So the first one he told me – you know, the first time he was ever approached was when he was four years old, they used to
appear like little kids. After a while, when they got to know him and he got to know them, they appeared to him in their form,
as greys or as other life forms. And they were so concerned that they wanted to know why he was so emotional when he saw
a bird get hurt and die. They wanted to know how someone could be so emotional about it. That’s when they started
appearing to him, when he was four years old. It’s interesting that when he was explaining to me about what he saw when he
was four years old, he saw this craft fly over in back of his house. Some kids were playing with him and they said, you were
gone for forty minutes. So I figured out that their planet is about a hundred light years away, it takes forty minutes to travel a
hundred light years. So he said, well they used wormhole technology. And if you look at some of the pictures of the craft that
Clifford talks about, he talks about all the exotic metals, all the exotic materials to withstand the speed of light, so Clifford and
I figured out that they used wormhole technology. When you see a craft, and all of a sudden it disappears, that’s because it’s
going through the portal. NASA is working on wormhole technology.
A lot of the craft he went to see didn’t have exotic materials. And when I did talk to him about these interviews, he drew
pictures of what the craft looked like, and I kind of knew what they looked like also. This was kind of weird because we’re
kind of connected spiritually also.
PH: Could some of these craft turn into light energy? People have described seeing what seemed like balls of
light, and they seemed to materialize into craft. If you raised the frequency of something, could it turn into light?
JZ: Yes, it could, because when we’re talking about how they go from one dimension to another, you have the object
vibrating at a different resonance. And by vibrating at a different resonance, you have the object going through a different
molecular space. And yeah, it definitely is, because it’s the same thing with technology. If you look at the spacecraft, there
are no windows and no doors.
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PH: But I’m talking about the light craft.
JZ: With the light craft, they can change metals into transparency, which is easy for them, so you can take a solid object
and turn it into energy or vice versa.
PH: So what could be seen, especially around where the tether broke, and they had a hundred of these little
amoeba-like things, could be craft.
JZ: Yes, it could be, because they could go together and form one. Their technology is so advanced. People need to
remember that when they see a UFO or they see a spacecraft, they’re always trying to put it in their human context. Their
technology and their physics is way beyond ours. But no matter what dimension the metal came from, it’s not going to break
the laws of physics here. With the craft, when it’s going through a wormhole or changing dimensions, it’s still following
physics. Maybe more advanced physics, but it’s still following physics.
PH: Number one, is that the one he talked about in the Disclosure Project?
JZ: No, this was the NBC School.( Nucleur Biological Unit)
He told me that he was in the military, and he was told to go to this building and to go upstairs and just to wait. So he went
up, and he was bored so he looked down and saw people watching films. He thought it was science fiction, you know,
different craft and things like that. Soon one of the officers looked up and saw him, and Security showed up and asked him
what he was doing up there. He explained that he had been told to wait there. For a few hours, or possibly for a few days,
they were trying to say, you didn’t see what you saw, and if you ever disclose it we’re going to, you know, because of security
reasons.
PH: And the government could possibly have craft.
JZ: Yeah, and he knew about it for a long time, but the military kind of indoctrinated him.
PH: Let’s go to number two. This was in 1969 in Indian Town Gap.
JZ: Right, but what was interesting about the NBC film – he went to meet somebody that worked in the NSA. And he
went to the NSA, and the guy said, I want to show you something. So they both went to the Pentagon. Now I went to the
Pentagon, and there was an underground system there. I won’t go into too much detail, but a helicopter was sent out. So he
said he went underground with this person, and they went down a long hall. If you know anything about military bases, you
know there are no windows because they don’t want anyone to see what’s classified. He went to one room, and there was an
entity sitting on a chair.
PH: Did he describe the entity?
JZ: Yes. He saw into the entity’s eyes, and he actually saw his whole life kind of passing before his eyes. His own life
and I think the entity was trying to communicate that they had the ability to communicate this way. He picked up the energy,
but he said it was so painful that he felt like his head was in a buzz saw. And then he said that he just passed out, and woke
up later on. The folks from the NSA said, “Are you all right? You just fell asleep.” And Cliff said, no, I saw this, I saw that, and
they said, “No you didn’t.” They tried to debrief him.
PH: What do we know about the entity that was sitting in the Pentagon in the underground tunnel?
JZ: I think, I’ll have to ask Cliff more, but I think they wanted to see if Clifford really knew what he knew.
PH: But can you tell us anything else about what the entity was doing there, was he a guest?
JZ: I think he was a guest. There were times when Clifford would see an entity. There were many cases; I’ve got some
of them documented, where he was communicating with the entity. And the scientists were there with their notebooks, and
they wanted to see if Clifford was really communicating with the entity. So they’d have Clifford ask the entity about interstellar
travel. One time he wrote down some formulas, and I have a copy of it, and that showed proof that Clifford was talking to the
entity.
PH: Clifford must have been used to seeing these entities. We’re talking about it like it’s normal, but it’s not
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normal to go to the Pentagon, and underneath to have an entity. What was he doing there? They do know there are
entities, and we’re having some kind of interaction with them.
JZ: I think, you know, working for one of the big military contractors, we’re always trying to find ways to come up with
new weapon systems. I feel that our government is trying to reverse-engineer technology so that they can have a better
weapon system.
PH: That’s why they’re fascinated with the entities?
JZ: They are. Clifford was in contact with them about certain things. He was having a conversation once with the entity,
and the government didn’t know because they can’t read minds. Clifford was asking things like what’s your name, where do
you live, what type of lifestyle do you have. So Clifford was more involved in the personal life of these entities.
PH: You told me there were some things the entity told Clifford, that he did not repeat.
JZ: Yes, I know that for a fact, either because he wanted to protect the entity or himself. He kept telling people that the
government never asked the right questions. They were only interested in technology.
PH: They were never interested in spiritual, psychological, sociological questions that you and I would have
asked.
JZ: They never asked that.
PH: Okay, let’s go to number three, Indian Town Gap, Pennsylvania. I asked him once whether that was a regular
town and he said no, it’s part of a military base.
JZ: This was a military exercise in Indian Town Gap, Pennsylvania, which is an army base that the army uses for flight
simulators. When I was in the military they were sending officers there all the time for flight training. Clifford was told that a
craft went down, and it was a Soviet craft, and they had to go check it. That was the cover story. So he went out there with a
Geiger counter and found that the craft had no radiation, because they don’t use the same propulsion system that we do. So
he explained little bits here and there, and I kind of put it together that this was not a conventional craft.
One of the entities was hanging out of the opening in the side. The way Project Moondust works, when you have an incident,
they send the first responder and Clifford out to see what’s going on. He kept on calling for an officer, and they kept saying,
tell us what you see. Now when you go to a crashed airplane or any craft, there’s a certain protocol. This includes security
and a cover story. So I was reading about what he was talking about, and it made sense because the readings were normal,
there was no radiation. So I started putting things together. No heat shield, no exotic material…
PH: So there were four entities and they were grey. The important thing about this is that he was shocked,
because he didn’t know he was doing that. He thought he was just looking for a craft.
JZ: At Indian Town Gap, he actually saw visitors. They were dead, but he actually saw them and realized that the
government was doing something.
PH: Did the government shoot them down?
JZ: No, this crash was an accident. People like sensationalism; they like to say we shot down UFOs.
PH: Why did they come down in a military installation?
JZ: Some witnesses have said that NORAD was always aware that a Fastwalker was coming in, and would be told that
a craft was about to crash. So the military would try to guide the craft in to land at a military facility, as the best way to keep
the public out and to contain the incident. It’s like if you’re flying a small plane and you have trouble, you try to bring it down
in an open field.
PH: So they’re guided in. That assumes there’s communication between the pilots of these craft and our military.
JZ: Oh, there is. They can communicate telepathically. That’s what they’ve been using remote viewing for, in addition to
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regular communications.
The next event was when he was in Viet Nam, and when he was flying out of one of the bases, he was taking to the Colonel.
And he said he heard about this when he was on a base in Oakland, California. The Colonel said anybody else talks, we’re
going to silence them because this is a secret project. You are not going to talk about what you see. The way it works is that
nobody ever knows all the information. Where I work, I know part of the project, somebody else knows another part. The
reason is that if something happened, you got compromised, you got government secrets.
PH: What was he doing in Viet Nam?
JZ: He was supposed to check out a B-52 crash. Now the interesting thing is that usually when an airplane crashes, it’s
going to go through the trees, and aircraft is going to be all over the place. When we fly over, we see a wing here, a fuselage
over there. Here, the B-52 was solid. Clifford asked himself, why is this craft all in one piece? He saw greys on the other side
of the plane, and they asked him why he was there. He heard it in his head. Apparently they were startled to see him. There
was shooting going on all around them, but they were able to stop the bullets. He said they had the technology to be able to
stop time. So he told them, if you can stop time, you need to get out of the way or you’re going to get killed.
So I think they were there because they wanted to know why the enemy shot down a B-52, why we were killing each other.
When it was coming down, they lifted it and brought it down intact. They were concerned about why we were at war. They
were very disturbed and very caring about life. He told me that they actually stopped us from shooting each other. So he
went back to the staging area and was about to write all this down, like a debriefing. The Colonel was there, and they were
concerned that Clifford saw all this. Clifford told them that the Visitors had said they were there to see why the airplane was
shot down, that they were surprised to see Clifford there, and then they wanted to debrief Clifford. Having a clearance,
everything you write down, even if it’s tic-tac-toe or something, that paper is considered classified. If you make photocopies
of a classified document, the blank paper before and after is considered classified too!
PH: So what happened after that? He told me he was digging a tunnel or something.
JZ: The tunnel was another situation where he had to go investigate a crash. This was also in Viet Nam. He was called
because there was a sighting, so he took a helicopter and went all the way out into the jungle. He got to this clearing and he
saw a cave. Now if you know anything about engineering, when you cut into a cave, you get a rough rock surface. This
looked like it had been cut by a laser. He went into this cave and set up the radio phones and so on. He saw that the cave
was luminescent. He said that when he went into the cave, it was very dark, but over in the corner he saw one of the craft,
and it was black and triangular in shape. When he examined the craft, he saw one of those panels that you pass your hand
over and all the lights come on.
PH: So what was the craft?
JZ: It was all black, triangular in shape.
PH: So he knew it was their stuff.
JZ: He knew it. And he also said, as he talked about in UFO Magazine, that there was also something like a laboratory,
and they were trying to figure out why we were killing ourselves, shooting each other.
PH: So they were, in a way, a reconnaissance team of ET’s that were looking at us and what we were doing in the
Viet Nam war. But then why was Clifford in the cave? Was he a military liaison with these beings?
JZ: He was in the cave to see what was going on. Now when he was in the cave, I don’t know if he ever told you this, but
he knew that his platoon was on the other side of the cave. He could see transparently through the wall of the cave, the
soldiers.
PH: So what he saw was a dimensional kind of thing where he could see both sides.
JZ: Yes, and we know that’s true because some of the craft have the technology to take metal and make it transparent.
Some of that technology exists, and I think now some of it has been commercialized.
PH: Did he also communicate with them?
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JZ: Yes. He saw this control panel and ran his hands over it, and all the lights came on. There were no wires or anything.
PH: Are we saying that these beings are somehow cooperating with the military? What was he doing there? He
shouldn’t have been in there.
JZ: You have to understand that the military didn’t know what was going on.
PH: And they sent him in to see what was in the cave. Alone?
JZ: No, he was with the other military personnel. That’s when he went in there with the phone and everything.
PH: Were the other people like him, or was he the only telepathic one?
JZ: He was the only one there who was telepathic. But everyone with him had security clearance, so they were just there
to assist him and to take orders.
PH: What was the communication there?
JZ: Like the other cases, they were asking him why he was there, what he was doing there, and what we’re doing is
trying to understand this war you have going on here. So when he put his hand over this control panel and a beam of light
came out of it like a laser and hit him in the eye. He’s talked about how he has a scar on his eye and all the medical doctors
said something like an insect bit him. It wasn’t that, it was a laser beam. Now a laser is a very focused beam of light. And I
think what happened is that when he put his hand over it, the laser beam hit his eye, and the soldiers with him said he was
out. Now he remembers saying that when he was knocked out, the Visitors brought him back. When he came back, he
remembers realizing that all of the recovery sites he was going to, the government really doesn’t know what’s going on. He
talks to these Visitors, and they ask him things, and then they get to talking and he realizes that the government doesn’t
know what’s going on and doesn’t ask the right questions. We would ask things like why are you here, do you have family,
that kind of thing.
PH: Does Clifford ask them those questions?
JZ: He does, and they told him, we have families like yours. We have societies. We don’t believe in ego or lying, or
greed. They’re more spiritual. They say we have to be more spiritual in order to get to their level.
PH: Spirituality needs to evolve like our technology.
JZ: Right now, our technology is not spiritual.
PH: So he was able to question these visitors in Viet Nam. But we never get names of groups that they come
from.
JZ: No, he said when you’re nineteen years old, as Clifford was when he was in Viet Nam, and they give you a clearance
and you go out there and your whole life turns upside down – you don’t think to ask them where they came from.
Another case, in 1969, happened an Air Force Base – I think it’s in Virginia. He met one of the ET’s. He was sitting across
from the ET and the ET said to him, look at his eyes, I’m afraid. This is the one he helped to escape. This is where he had
communications with the Visitor that the government didn’t know about.
PH: So Clifford helped this guy escape…
JZ: They told the Colonel that the Visitor wanted to talk to him alone because he wanted to show him something. So
everybody got out of the room. Clifford got somebody to get wire cutters and cut the fence around the perimeter where they
had this Visitor, and then Clifford was told that they were going to come and pick him up.
PH: His own people were going to come pick him up?
JZ: The ET’s were going to come pick up this Visitor and get him out of there.
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PH: I heard they had a room that had blocks, not wire.
JZ: No, the wire fence was outside, around the perimeter. In the building, it’s set up so that it’s very compartmentalized,
you can’t just go through. So he helped the Visitor escape and then they got through the wire fence. Now when the craft
landed, he said they were shocked because they said, Clifford, you shouldn’t have done that, they’re not always friendly.
Clifford said, no, they are always friendly, it’s you who are not always friendly and who say they are not. The agenda of a lot
of the people interviewing, they always think that the Visitors are evil. That sells books. But Clifford said that when he saw the
craft land, he was trying to figure out how heavy it was by the indentation that it leaves. If you think about it, if you land an
aircraft on grass, it’s always going to leave an impression. He told me that one of the craft he was in, was about thirty feet in
diameter. But when he was inside, he tried to measure it with a 100-foot measuring tape, and he ran out of tape.
PH: Let’s get back to the beings. They were saying, Clifford, you shouldn’t have done that? Was it the beings
who said that?
JZ: The being said, I’m afraid. He felt the fear from the ET. He helped the being escape, and they thanked him for doing
that. The truck driver, the one who cut the fence with the wire cutters, said I could get court-martialed for this, but this being is
a friend of ours.
PH: So were the people upset with him?
JZ: No, only the Colonel said to him, not all of these beings are friendly.
PH: So they didn’t court-martial him.
JZ: No, they didn’t. But I found it interesting that all the information that we have, they always talked about being afraid
and meaning no harm.
PH: I don’t think all aliens are like that, but the one he met probably was. What was the purpose of having him in
the room? Were they trying to grill him for information? Was he the survivor of a crash or something?
JZ: Yes, they were trying to get information from him. I don’t know how he came to be there.
PH: You don’t know how they got him, or they captured him, or what.
****** Enter Clifford Stone again
CS: Things aren’t always what they seem to be, like a solid wall. I went through the wall. They stated, a lot of times things
aren’t as they seem. They showed me a door, they pushed him. We went through the wall.
PH: And they never hurt you for letting the guy go. They never did anything. They kind of understood that he
needed to go and they let him. But I don’t understand where he came from in the first place.
CS: There’s a whole lot – if anyone comes up and tells you that they know exactly what happened, it’s not true.
PH: So a lot of it is open ended.
CS: Yes. I can go so far with some of this stuff, but – people talk about sending me out to wait for the next UFO crash.
UFO crashes are unique; they don’t come on a schedule.
PH: So you never knew when you would be called out. When you were doing this, what kind of work were you
doing? Nuclear biological clean up?
CS: I was doing normal things. But I was working very hard and everyone noticed I was getting a little strange. My wife
went to my commanding officer and asked him why I wasn’t spending much time at home, whether I was working. I had to. I
did a good job for my service. I was doing my duty.
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PH: You had different jobs, different duties. We have to make that really clear.
CS: For example, the night I was out on the field with the guy right there, he was sent by Central Texas College. His
equipment was all purchased for him at the expense of the US government.
PH: Why are they allowing you to talk? Is it because you can’t prove what you say?
CS: I can’t prove it.
PH: So you can talk all you want to, but you can’t prove anything. Do they mind if you talk?
CS: There’s a lot of stuff out. There are people who want this out, because people are getting hurt and they want it to
stop.
PH: Also, it’s part of our history on our planet. Because you’re telling us things that are absolutely revolutionary,
and if they were to tell you to be quiet, I’m sure you would.
Web Design by CTTowe
Copyright © 2007, Paola Harris. All rights reserved.
Thank you for visiting!
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by Dr Michael E. Salla
July 20, 2005
Exopolitics Journal 1:1 (October 2005)
from ExopoliticsJournal Website
Specialist Sergeant Clifford Stone (ret.) spent twenty two years serving in the U.S. Army (1969-1990) where he claims
he was covertly assigned to elite UFO crash retrieval teams known as projects Moon Dust and Blue Fly. Sergeant
Stone testifies that he was recruited for this covert service upon his enlistment into the U.S. Army and secretly served
for 22 years without his immediate commanders, military colleagues and family knowing about this.
What follows is the transcript of an exclusive interview conducted with Sgt Stone on July 20, 2005 where he describes
how his specialized training was done in a way that wasn’t recorded in his military record; how he would be secretly
summoned to his classified assignments without his regular army commander knowing; and the actual duties he
performed when secret teams were tasked with the retrieval of extraterrestrial vehicles and recovery of extraterrestrial
biological entities, both dead and alive.
Sgt Stone’s testimony is both startling and revealing in terms of the information it provides in how ordinary military
servicemen are forced to served in elite service units concerning UFOs without being fully briefed, being deprived of the
normal career recognition and benefits that occur for regular service in the U.S. military; and intimidated into
maintaining secrecy.
All this is done without regular military commanders being aware of this thereby suggesting a shadowy military force
existing within the United States military and the military of other countries that is exclusively responsible for UFO
related issues. What follows is the first in a two part exclusive interview on Clifford Stone’s experiences on these
covert UFO crash retrieval teams.
*I wish to thank Paola Harris who kindly contacted Sgt Stone to arrange this interview with him.
Abbreviations:
M.S. (Dr Michael Salla)
C.S. (Sgt Clifford Stone)
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Part 1.
Covert Service on Project Moon Dust and UFO Crash Retrievals
M.S. Can you briefly outline how you were recruited for UFO crash retrievals and the principal military
departments involved?
C.S. Well, I joined the Army, and outside of that I can’t say any other organization. It was just that you
were brought into it. There was another organization that had nothing to do with the army, I know that
because when I put in my retirement, my retirement was approved until this other organization found out
[Ed. the ‘organization’ is the ‘control group’ for UFO related affairs]. Then I was
attached to Fort Bliss pending approval of my retirement, and I can prove that
my retirement was already approved. I have documentation on that, but the
less you knew the more comfortable they felt.
Also, what a lot of people overlook is if we use the word ‘recruited’ into this
field, was they need certain talents certain people have. What happens is that
they have control of it. You have no control whatsoever. I don’t know if that
makes any sense or not but they really do. And I am sure it started when I was
a child. Initially when I tried to enlist in the army I was … rejected from military
service, that was in December, 1967. And I was permanently rejected from
military service. I was classified as 4F, and I would assume that the Draft
Board has a record of that.
M.S. Can you confirm whether you did any training as ‘typist’ which is on your
military record and how this related to the actual training you did for the
specialized activities you performed? …
C.S. Which needs clarification because no one has ever gotten that straight. OK, I went into the military
and when I enlisted, I enlisted for MOS, Military Occupational Specialty 71B, which is clerk typist. I was
then and am to this very day a lousy clerk typist. I can’t type worth heck, but the situation is I tried for other
MOS’s but they said “don’t rock the boat because you were . . . rejected from military service so let’s just
take it easy, admin., not a problem.” Well, I went into that, going through Basic [Training], had some
situations with UFO’s while I was in Basic that made it clear that somebody already knew that prior to
getting into the service I had an interest in UFO’s.
It didn’t all start to click together until I got to AIT [Advanced Individual Training]. At AIT I went ahead and I
was supposed to be trained as a clerk typist, but when you first get to AIT there are a couple of days you
don’t go into training. Normally they started on a Monday and I got there one day during the week, other
than Monday, so my training didn’t start until the following Monday, so they put me on ‘Detail’. And initially
I was handing out medical records at the hospital there, when people came in. That went for two or three
days.
When I was supposed to start training they had me up on a cleaning detail and sent me to the post
headquarters which also housed the G2 office, which was military intelligence. There was a person there
who was on special duty to Ozarks in South Carolina and he went ahead and was very interested in what
I knew about UFO’s, up to and including the point where he was showing me things that were highly
classified. I knew what Top Secret meant. I didn’t know what the letters meant after Top Secret at that
time. Now I do know what they stand for . . . and I was a little concerned because I didn’t have a
clearance at that time. After I got through Basic and got through AIT which he told me he would keep in
touch when he left.
I went to my first permanent duty station after leave, and that was 36 Civil Affairs Company, part of the 96
Civil Affairs Group at Fort Lee, Virginia. I announced to them immediately that I did not know anything
about typing, so the First Sergeant went ahead and said: “not only do you not know anything about typing
you are color blind too.” And I said, ‘Pardon me’, so he said: “I’ll be right back.” And he goes into the
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company commander and tells the company commander something and the company commander comes
out.
The company commander asks me what branch of service did I enlist into, and I said “Sir, I enlisted into
the United States Army, it should be obvious on here”. He said: “do you know the difference between blue
and green”, and I found the question kind of ridiculous, but I said “yes sir, I do”, and he said, “Ok”.
So they told me at that time, OK you say you can’t type, would you mind being the unit NBC [Nuclear,
Biological, and Chemical] communications noncommissioned
officer? And I said “sure, what does
that encompass?” Well, we have to send you to
school, so it wasn’t no more than a month of so later
that I ended up going to school at Fort MacCallum,
Alabama.
It was a three week course in the unit NBC, noncommissioned
officer. Upon completion of that I came
back to my unit and when I came back to my unit it
was just taking care of the protective masks, the
protective NBC protective equipment. I have the
communications equipment which also consisted of
several quick 25’s, which are field radios, little more
than a hundred 312’s which were filled telephones
and switchboard that we had, which was an SP22
switchboard.
A month after that I was assigned to be on the quick reaction group in the event there was an NBC
incident that was to occur, then we would move out. Now under that guise I was used on at least three
occasions while I was there dealing with UFOs.
M.S. You say that you participated in a training program for UFO crash retrieval teams under the rubric of
Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Weapons Crisis Response Team. Is this training generic for all types of
NBC crises including UFO crash retrievals, or was your training specifically for UFO crash retrievals and
associated NBC problems?
C.S. It was generic for all NBC situations. When it came to UFO’s the general stance was they didn’t exist
so they didn’t go out of there way to make believers out of people who were involved in that. You were
hand picked by somebody, and that somebody wasn’t army officials. That somebody’s personal opinion
[was] in the Alphabet Soup of the intelligence community of the United States.
I can’s say CIA, DIA or who. They hand picked you. And when you went there and there was a UFO
incident, and you knew it was a UFO incident, the protocol went basically the same. And you were always
debriefed being told it was a Soviet space craft, it was a Stealth aircraft, it was one of our aircraft. If you
saw the craft you knew better.
M.S. Were NBC units used for normal duties in addition to specialized crash retrieval duties?
C.S. Oh absolutely. Like rule number one, don’t use an NBC unit when it comes to UFO’s. Don’t use an
NBC unit on a quick reaction call on a UFO more than one time. Because what happens is that the people
… normally have clearances between confidential and secret, mostly secret. But if you’re involved in a
recovery of even debris of a UFO, then what happens is now its top secret/SCI, meaning that Top Secret
Sensitive Compartmented Information, which requires more than a Top Secret clearance to view the
material.
And that would be on a one time basis; however, they would have people in there that they hand picked
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that would be involved throughout their career dealing with UFO’s. And they would also go ahead and
make the determination on assignment where those people go to try and have them in pre-position in
locations where they anticipated there would be some kind of UFO related activity.
M.S. Did you speak to others participating in the NBC Crisis training and were they also involved in UFO
crash retrieval duties?
C.S. Oh absolutely. The one thing that people have a problem with and is hard for them to understand is
that the best protection is to have situations where you have real life, every day events that can occur and
have contingency plans for life for them. Now if a UFO crashes, those thing’s [UFOs] contingency plan
works very good for the recovery of items. Of course where they go is entirely different and the protocol is
a little different, not much but a little different. For example, not everything is classified if you have an NBC
accident, a nuclear, biological, chemical accident.
But if you have an incident of “high strangeness” involving an object of unknown origin, that’s how they
refer to them. Then there is a total blackout on any type of information. Before you could call or do
anything, you had to go ahead and be debriefed. If you were there for three days or better you couldn’t
call home to check on the family, you couldn’t do anything. You had to go ahead and wait for the
debriefing before you could call home or say anything. Then of course you couldn’t talk about the event
and the contingency was always part of the debriefing. Even though you knew better it was always fallen
space debris that we had sent up. They didn’t want any diplomatic incidents so they steered clear.
There were a couple of times there were Soviet space debris, but they still declared it being a UFO. So
you were involved in assisting with that. But you only had two teams. You had the A team which had to go
ahead and arrive there within two hours of the event. The B team would show up within four hours of the
event. They came from different locations. You never had them come, and when I was working there at
Fort Lee, they always had 72 hour alert facility, which meant there were people in that alert facility for 72
hours at a time….
M.S. Is NBC training classified information, or are only those who serve on Project Moon Dust that don’t
have this training recorded on their military record?
C.S. During the training it was mundane training. I mean it was normal training and NBC period. It was
classified; the lowest classification in any block of instruction was at least confidential, ranging from
confidential to secret. But keep in mind it had a real world
mission. Everybody getting trained there was... the intent
wasn’t to go ahead and recover extraterrestrial vehicles or
debris thereof, that was not the intent of NBC.
Now when you come to Moon Dust and Blue Fly, it wasn’t
the initial intent of Moon Dust and Blue Fly for the recovery
of extraterrestrial vehicles, however, it’s covered by
objects of “Unknown Origin. UFO’s you try and steer clear
of, extraterrestrial anything you try to keep away from. The
one thing you use is ‘Object of Unknown Origin’. But I was
close enough to know that in some of the incidences that’s
what we were involved with, vehicles not of this world.
M.S. Was your military record purged of any mention of the specialized training you did for NBC training
and for the crash retrieval teams, and only reflects your ‘cover position’ as a clerical administrative typist?
C.S. Actually it does. Actually one of the biggest mistakes they did, is that, and I can send you a copy of it,
it was the fact that I spent 14 months at Fort MacCallum, Alabama. I spent two months at Fort Lee,
Virginia, and 14 months at Fort MacCallum, Alabama, TDY, and it reflects me being TDY. Well, one, [an]
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Executive Order from the President of the United States was that you could not be TDY for more than 179
days.
Two, it was a three week course, it was then, it is to this day a three week course. So, what does it reflect
by the way? It reflects I went Fort Lee, then TDY to Fort MacCallum, then went to Vietnam. In reality that
is not the case. I have my medical records reflecting that I went to the dispensary during the time I was
supposed to be at Fort MacCallum outside of the three week period that I was there attending the NBC
course. I also have a certificate of achievement for my tenure there at Fort Lee, Virginia.
M.S. What was the “certificate of achievement” for?
C.S. It was in relation to doing ‘the job’.
M.S. Do you have any photos or evidence of having done the NBC course?
C.S. That occurred in 1969, not right off the top of my hat. But the nice thing about it is that it does give
the course, so when some of the people got a copy of that, they could go ahead and head up on the
course number and they even took pictures. I’ve lived a strange life, I don’t have a copy of the picture I did
have. I don’t have a copy of my certificate but I can get that. I know for a fact I can get that. I just haven’t,
how can I put this? For me UFO’s isn’t a business, I know what I am saying to be true because I lived it.
And you know a person can either believe or disbelieve. That’s not what I am about, and right now one of
the big things is with the documentation and trying to get the Air Force to move ahead, and I know Moon
Dust and Blue Fly has a lot of material that they haven’t released. They will either say it is misplaced, it
was destroyed, but that is an out-and-out lie. They have even told members of Congress of that.
M.S. Is there anyone that you served with that you can remember that I may be able to contact?
C.S. One name that comes to mind is, I think his last name was Jacks. Now he won’t be hard to locate he
was at Fort Belvoir and he was at that time army contingent to NSA, National Security Agency. As a
matter of fact my plane ticket was stolen and he actually gave me a ride back to Fort Lee Virginia.
M.S. Do you remember his Rank?
C.S. His was a Spec-5, Specialist fifth class.
M.S. Do you have a record of any others who did the NBC course with you?
C.S. They have the list of each class that went through there. Like I say my records look like that. I’ll
provide you a copy with my record DH2-1 because I know that … I was there only a couple of months at
Fort Lee, and then spent 14 months at Fort MacCallum. You can’t do that on TDY [Temporary Duty],
anybody that’s a private and serves two months in the Army knows that the maximum you can spend TDY
is a 179 days, not 14 months. Anything over 180 days, if you reach a 180 days you have to get what they
call PCS, which is Permanent Change of Status. I hope I’m making sense there.
M.S. After you were relocated to Germany as a result of your FOIA work [Stone has written a book based
on UFO documents released by his use of the Freedom of Information Act], can you say what happened
in terms of your continued work with the Project Moon Dust team?
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C.S. Well in Germany it was much more open because I was telling the people then because I was getting
disillusioned with some of the stuff we were doing. I never felt it was proper to try to make people look
crazy when you knew that what they were reporting was accurate to the best of their ability. In short, you
knew they saw an extraterrestrial vehicle. But our job was to convince them that what they saw was the
Northern Lights, aircraft in unusual circumstances, meteors, and you totally, you had to do this.
That’s the protocol [used] in [the] Estimate of the Situation in 1948, even [Project] Blue Book. You go to
the Project Sign, Report p. 10 (top of the page) which stipulates that we have looked at the possibility of
UFOs being extraterrestrial spacecraft and really there’s no validity to it. And this conclusion will never be
reviewed again barring hard physical evidence of all of this being examined and leaving extraterrestrial
spacecraft as the only possible explanation.
Because we know throughout Blue Book there was possible, probable aircraft; possible, probable
balloons; possible, probable astronomical phenomena. And after a year or so that became the conclusion
whether it fit the scenario or not. With the conclusion you have people say no, no, no, I saw the planet
Venus, it wasn’t planet Venus, well it was in the general proximity so now it became planet Venus. “No,
no, no, I saw the jets, or the jets were there.” But now ‘they’ became ‘the’ jet. A good example was the
Montana film in 1950 I believe, when the man filmed the UFOs but prior to that there was two F-94s
coming in for a landing.
He told the Air Force: “hey, I saw the jets, that’s not what these were.” It was easy to go ahead and
ascertain what the jets were. These came immediately after the jets, well if you know anything about the
approach pattern you could very quickly ascertain that these were not coming in out of their approach
pattern to land at that Air base. These were objects that had no intention of landing from any conventional
sense.
M.S. When in Germany, did you have a regular assignment and how did that change when you went on to
special duties with the recovery teams?
C.S. Oh, I was assigned in my proper MOS [Military Occupation Specialty], later they changed it 71 Lima
which was an administrative specialist and then I served time in Germany as a 75 Zulu which they
couldn’t award you that MOS because you had to be trained in it but I wasn’t, but I did a good job in it.
When it came to administration and taking care of my troops, I was very, very good at that; and that’s
what I did unless there was incident in the region you were in, and they decided they were going to use
you.
The code word that was used with me was “the general sends his regards”. I didn’t know if there was a
general involved or not since I never saw the general. I was told “bags to go”, so you grab your DA-50
bag, all your equipment will be packed and you kiss your wife and your children good bye and you left.
You never knew if you were going to see them again. There were accidents where people didn’t return.
M.S. How long were the crash retrieval assignments?
C.S. Normally, it would be anywhere between three to seven days. There was one incident where we had
an
ongoing situation, actually two, in which they went ahead and … one of them lasted almost three months.
Then my last time in Germany I went ahead and don’t know
how long that would have lasted since we had situations
going on in the Soviet Union and in Belgium.
And I got involved in that. And then there was also some
stuff going on in South Africa and I was told I would be
leading a company tour there, and that I would not be
expected to bring my family. That’s how I know for a fact
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that it wasn’t the Army that had control over this because I put in my request for retirement through army
channels and didn’t mention it to the powers that be on the other side that had operational control of the
UFO aspect.
They found out two days prior to me retiring that I was expected to report to Fort Bliss, I reported there
and they told me that they needed to reattach me since my retirement hadn’t been approved. I said: “no,
no, no, here’s a letter from my first Sergeant saying it, here’s a letter from my personnel center. It’s been
approved guys.” Nope, you don’t have any orders. I said the orders were cut back in my unit in Augsburg
Germany. I said you can call them, and they said no, no, the Department of the Army says you are to be
attached for two months here.
So I was supposed to get out effective on December, but I didn’t get out effective … until February 1,
1990. And the only reason I did that, the one guy I always called the Colonel; he told me well we are going
to keep you. So I went ahead and laid out each of those documents showing that there was something
wrong, I said you know there’s a letter, a very long letter that explains all this stuff here, with the regulation
that says barring we’re at war, you can’t do this to me.
Now they may not buy the UFO aspect of it but I’m sure some of the media are going to be asking
questions. So I convinced him my friend here in Roswell, a guy by the name of Ralph Pike had a hundred
fifty envelopes, and if he didn’t get a call from me midnight of that day saying I was getting out of the Army
that he was going to send those out. They were already packaged and ready to go. And at least some
would be asking questions about that. So I managed to get out and I got my retirement effective February
1st.
The only thing I couldn’t do, I couldn’t go through a retirement ceremony. The first Sergeant had to keep
me that whole day with him, at the unit I was attached to, and he didn’t like that at all. He felt I was being
treated unjust, it wasn’t morally right, I served 22 and half years in the service and I was entitled to the
recognition, but I didn’t mind that. The one thing I wanted was that I was getting out.
I had some problems here in Roswell believe it or not. Roswell hasn’t always been the UFO friendly city.
Matter of fact when I started saying here, what happened here happened [1947 crash], when I started
talking openly when I was assigned here there was efforts to try to court martial me and everything. I had
to be careful in what I said, and it wasn’t until the death of my son that I came out and told my family, “OK
look, here’s what I had been doing; when I was gone all those times, here’s what was going on”. Then I
told some other people, that’s when I first started talking.
M.S. How were the records purged of your specialized training while in the service?
C.S. For example I had to do some investigative work. In connection to that … I had to take MP courses,
and I took those. Then the Army even tried to do away [with that] so there’s no record of that even
happening. But I have the records from my 2-1’s that shows that I really did take those courses. One guy
he was a 71-M … which is a chaplain’s assistant, he was a person who took pictures, he was a
photographer, but by Military Occupation Specialty (MOS) he was in fact a chaplain’s assistant.
The military provided the commercial means, the camera equipment that he needed, even to developing
his own film. They even sent to school. He was trained at Texas Central College and the University of
Maryland….
M.S. Did you write your experiences and why did you decide to go public?
C.S. Ok, she [my wife] had stuff that I had started to write right prior to the death of my son that was
actually going to be intended just for my family at the time of my death. But I’m working on it now trying to
get it out. When I went into the military, the Vietnam War was on, and I really wanted to get in because I
believed I had a moral obligation to serve my country.
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And whether I recognized Vietnam as a war or not is immaterial, it [Vietnam] was at war, my country was
at war and I had an obligation to serve my country. So when I got in I was very thankful that I got in. But,
as I always said, my momma didn’t raise no fool; so I wasn’t going to bring up the subject of UFOs in the
military. But the subject was brought up to me and slowly but surely I was slowly indoctrinated into it.
It was supposedly at a seminar for the NBC officers, what we call the OIC, the Officers in Charge, of the
NBC quick reaction team that we saw, myself and another airman. I was in the army, we had Air Force,
Army, Navy, Marines all involved, the unit, the NBC non-commissioned officer all of them are trained there
at Fort MacCallum, Alabama. It makes no difference if they were Army, Air Force, Navy or Marines, they
are trained there.
But we were up there when we first thought we were seeing trailers of sci-fi movies, but you know we both
thought we had seen them all and we could not identify some of the things we were seeing. It wasn’t too
long after that that we were no longer alone. And they took us and actually threw us into the panel van
and took us to a wooden frame one story building and kept us there. For him [the airman] it was three
days, for me it went for a total of five. That was a Monday and I didn’t get out until that Friday.
M.S. With the documents that you have in your possession, I have read
that some of those are classified, I just want to know how you have access
to those if they are still classified as opposed to de-classified documents
where there’s no offense in having those in possession. So do you still
have classified documents and if so why?
C.S. One, I wouldn’t want to lie to you; and two, that’s a question I
wouldn’t answer over the phone. You know the old adage that right now
it’s a violation of title 18 USC section 793-799 if you have any kind of
classified documentation in your possession, and that carries a $10,000
fine and ten years imprisonment on each count. Since UFOs are not
supposed to exist, the US government can’t really come after me for
having something that would be non-existent.
M.S. In the 1980’ and 90s you begin to initiate a series of FOIA requests that got a lot of information on
projects Moon Dust and Blue Fly so was it your service on the crash retrieval teams and the knowledge
you gained through those assignments that basically led to those requests being made?
C.S. Well, actually it goes back to the late 1970s when I was in Europe, I’d get certified and confidential
packets from the government because they already knew that I had certain information that didn’t look like
it was in some of those documents, and as an end result they would send those where I had to sign for
them. A couple of times they would send them: “to the Commander of”. The Navy is notorious for that. Of
course, the commander had no idea of why they were doing that.
He was aware of my interest in UFOs, and when my wife complained about me spending a lot of long
hours working, both my commander and first Sergeant said: “OK you’re right, he’s lost leave time, he’s
working seven days a week; we need to put an end to that.” But of course, they couldn’t whenever there
was a UFO incident or something came up, you were gone, it was that simple. It’s not like having a job
where you can say: “I don’t like this work, I quit.” You can’t do that in the military.
So it was a situation where there was nothing my commander and my first Sergeant could do, and what
made it more worse was they couldn’t explain it to my wife. Actually they didn’t know. All they knew was
that there was something involved with UFOs that was having me put in those long hours. They didn’t
know what. They knew about the mail I was getting that it would be registered and certified. They also
knew that FOIA did not work that way. There should be no need for the added expense for registered mail
and certified mail. And also I always had the ‘snowflake’ there where I would have to sign for the
documentation. The ‘snowflake’ reflected that it was a FOIA request, unclassified, but the intent of that
was that if I ever go ahead and release information that was above and beyond what was in those
documents I’d be held accountable.
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M.S. So from the late 1970’s and onwards you put in all of those FOIA requests using your own personal
experiences to basically get the most sensitive information that would then give you a cover to speak
more about exactly what was happening?
C.S. Absolutely, for example, there exists a form, a document, titled “Aid to Identify UFOs”. Now that
document is put out by Wright Patterson, the equivalent of the Air Tactical Intelligence Center, or the Air
Foreign Intelligence Center is what I think they call it now, to aid them in identifying UFO reports that are
submitted through the CIRVIS channel [Communications Instructions for Reporting Vital Intelligence
Sightings].
Now a lot of people think that the Air Force doesn’t investigate UFOs any more. Well, Air Force Instruction
(AFI) 10-206, chapter 5, dated March 10, 2004, still requires as a matter of routine reporting procedures
that certain items be reported as matters of vital intelligence to the security of the United States and the
North American continent.
One of those items is UFO’s and they go into great detail as to what type of information needs to be
provided when reporting a UFO, that’s in that same chapter. If you see an unidentified submarine, no big
gig, you know it’s a submarine. If you see an unidentified
aircraft, no big gig you know it’s a conventional type aircraft. If
you see unusual troop movements, unusual military vehicle
movements, you know what all those are. You go ahead and
report the make up of those, configuration of the aircraft, any
outstanding features on the submarine, all this stuff, not a real
problem.
But when it comes to UFOs, now you have a problem…
anything that would indicate that there was some type of
advanced technology that was involved. And of course that
doesn’t mean they are looking for an interplanetary
spacecraft, but they can come right back and say, you know
an unconventional aircraft is going to appear as a UFO to an
observer who’s never observed one before. So they always
have that to come back on.
However, to eliminate all possibilities, while this document is
not classified, it’s for internal use only. And it ties in with the
NORAD Instruction, I think it’s 10-19; which, with a CIRVIS
report, it’s supposed to be sent to NORAD, and they are
supposed to ascertain threat or no threat. Well in order to
ascertain threat or no threat you have to ascertain origin of the
object and what the object was.
It’s just like July 26, 2002, the UFOs over Washington D.C.,
the Air Force didn’t have much to say about that. They
referred to it as a “target of interest”. Well it was too close to
the White House for them not to be concerned or even alarmed. And a lot of people think they got up
there, and it took off, and they didn’t find out who it was. Well if it was a conventional aircraft they could
give you the name of the pilot and I have documentation to prove this with the type of radar we have.
We have what’s called ‘space time, real time’ radar, and you better believe that we can track an aircraft to
where it lands. Relatively new but at that time it was in operation and I know in that area they had that
radar in operation.
M.S. So that would be part of the new intelligence team or new intelligence section that works with
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Measurement and Signature Intelligence? MASINT.
C.S. Of what?
M.S. Measurement and Signature Intelligence its one of the new branches of intelligence gathering, that
would include the kind of radar tracking that you just described.
C.S. It probably would be. Remember I only got bits of this since I was in the Army and not the Air Force,
and they didn’t sit you down to give you all the information so when you got out you could talk about it.
The least you knew the better off you were. They also did psychological profiles on probabilities of people
talking once they got out. I had a 70%. Which meant there was a 70% probability that I would never speak
of some of the things that had happened.
Which is probably why they wanted me to stay in. A 100% probability that I wouldn’t speak while I was in
the military, even though I did there at the end start talking out. But, even then I had to be very careful. In
short, it had to be: “well this is what other people are saying; well, this is some of the stuff I know about,”
but I couldn’t come out and hit up, yes, this is what I’m working with. These are some of the things when
you’re sleeping at night, we’re still awake and doing things like this.
M.S. Can you just very briefly explain your precise role when you were working on those retrieval teams,
being for example the first team to go in that you were playing that role of actually entering into the
vehicle, to then relay back to the other teams whatever other information they needed in order to come in
safely? In other words you were the first one in there.
C.S. We took radiation readings and things of this sort, and we also took steps of trying to identify any
type of biological hazard that might be there, but the real purpose for me being involved point blank was to
act as an interface. Whether you believe this or not, the intent is to communicate with the entity on the
ship, or on the craft.
M.S. And that was always done with crashes? Your skill was not used in some classified project to
communicate with EBEs; it was always done in terms of any EBEs on a crashed disk?
C.S. Well with me, the two things the military did with me, for example, I would always have a guardian
that would always, because I thought I should have a higher security clearance for some of the stuff I was
doing. Oh no, no, they shut you up if you do push for that. Well any time I needed a security clearance, I
had whatever security clearance to do whatever it was they wanted me to do. You were debriefed
afterwards and you sign the non-disclosure agreement, but it’s not supposed to work that way. It’s
supposed to be that they give you that on a one time basis, on a “need to know” and that’s where it stops
short of getting the actual clearance and being fully briefed into the job.
Well one thing they wanted me to do was to go to ‘school’, to go to ‘school’, to go to ‘school’. Well this
would be the ‘school’ that taught many factors about UFOs, I’m certain of that. It was never explained to
me why I had to go. Well I thought hard not to go to that school, and I was very good at not going. The
closest I came was when they sent me to the advanced NCO course when they were thinking of going
ahead and sending me down to Fort Belvoir. At the end of that course, they would have to hit up on it
being an intelligence course and that would create a problem with me going back when I’m supposed to
be nothing more than the administrative specialist there at my unit – personal services for noncommissioned
officers….
Part 2.
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C.S. Well one thing they [military controllers of UFO information] wanted me to do was to go to ‘school’, to
go to ‘school’, to go to ‘school’. Well this would be the ‘school’ that taught many factors about UFOs, I’m
certain of that. It was never explained to me why I had to go. Well I thought hard not to go to that school,
and I was very good at not going.
The closest I came was when they sent me to the advanced NCO course when they were thinking of
going ahead and sending me down to Fort Belvoir. At the end of that course, they would have to hit up on
it being an intelligence course and that would create a problem with me going back when I’m supposed to
be nothing more than the administrative specialist there at my unit – personal services for noncommissioned
officers….
M.S. With that ‘school’, what information were you aware of in terms of what was taught there, where it
was located and the sort of people they sent there?
C.S. I was not aware of where it was located, what was taught. I got to meet some people who went there
and to me they were scary. It was like, you know, even enlisted people were above reproach. I mean, it
was like “your station in life is less than mine because I know secrets that no one else knows.” It’s hard to
explain but there’s something sinister about the people when they came back from the school.
M.S. That ‘scariness’ or ‘sinister’ quality that they had, was that in any way related to their intelligence?
Was there some kind of intelligence enhancement that went with that training, or was it purely because of
their demeanor that they believed they were a cut above the rest of the services?
C.S. I would say it was the demeanor. For example, there was one person I met while I was there at
Keesler [Air Force base] who felt for sure that they obviously were going to kill me because I was talking. I
said I’m very careful about what I say, and the documentation I always make sure it’s released officially
through the U.S. government. Anyhow, what they did, this guy essentially wanted to be there in
Mississippi, he wanted to be there until retirement, and this was an Air Force pilot. But he was working
over at the atomic medicine research facility. I think that’s what they called it, there at Keesler Air Force
base.
And they initially weren’t not going to send him there, but because of the incident he was involved in
connection with Bentwaters [1980 “UFO incident in the United Kingdom] and they definitely did not want
him to be out and about talking to people about his experience. That’s one the media never did pick up
on. Well, anyhow, now he says: “if you want to ensure my silence, what you have to do is send me to
Mississippi.” And actually he used a form of blackmail there but it worked. I don’t know why it worked, but
in a sense it worked. They sent him there on the condition that he never talk of his situation.
But a mutual friend of ours who knew I was heavily involved in UFOs when he found out who I was and
what I was doing at that time, he says you know you got to keep away from him because if they decide
they are going to take him out, they aren’t picky, and if you’re there too you’ll be taken out too. You’d have
two unsolved murders as opposed to one. But I never felt threatened, I never felt
like there was going to be any repercussions, the only repercussions I had was
when I was assigned here [Roswell] and they were hitting up on Paul Bennewitz
[photo on right] and I got, how can I put this, I got very verbal about what they
were doing to Paul.
M.S. What was it that you were aware of that they were doing to Paul that
concerned you?
C.S. Paul was on to something, and he’s dead now. The person who they identified as ‘Falcon’ was
involved with that.
M.S. Was that Richard Doty?
C.S. Richard Doty, and, Richard Doty I’m sorry is acting under orders. Paul had film footage, he had
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pictures, he had audio recordings of something ‘not found in nature’ is the best way to put it. And when he
had the meeting with the Air Force personnel; well, [they said:] “yes, there’s something there but you know
we no longer investigate UFOs so we aren’t really interested.” Well they were interested enough to get
copies of everything that he had, but then it took a sinister side. The sinister side was to go ahead and
drive this person totally insane. And that ultimately led to his untimely death.
M.S. Yes it’s a sad experience…
C.S. He was going to write a book. I have two or three of the chapters he was working on and I talked to
him, and I tried to talk him out of it. But he was very impressed with Richard Doty, Special Agent Doty,
and he trusted Doty emphatically. So much so that he trusted Doty with his life. And that could have been
the ultimate big mistake. I haven’t heard it but I understand Doty went on a radio talk show and
acknowledged that he was doing that under orders, and I firmly believe he was doing that under orders.
Doty actually has been involved in several UFO incidents that are in the UFO field some of them are
actually, I’m not going to call them a hoax, because there’s a difference between a hoax and officially
sanctioned disinformation.
M.S. Can you describe any personal experiences you’ve had with extraterrestrials, and any different types
of extraterrestrials that you have personal experience of?
C.S. Forgive me on this, but Paola [Harris – pictured on
left with Sgt. Stone] had some of that material so let her
share that with you. I know it sounds crazy, but if you
ever come here [to Roswell] I made six hours of tapes
talking about my experiences. But when I start talking,
talking generalities I can do, but when I start talking you
are actually having flashbacks, you are actually reliving
it. I know that sounds crazy, you had to be there to
understand it, but I mean you get all emotional and I
prefer not to get that way.
M.S. Ok, we’ll leave that for another time then.…
C.S. You send me your address I’ll send you copies of those three tapes.
M.S. I’ll be very appreciative and whatever cost you go to in making those tapes I am more than happy to
reimburse you.
C.S. I give my stuff freely. Right now we have two CD’s I put out, I’m selling those but I’ll send you even a
copy of those. One CD has over 10,000 pages of UFO/government documentation. I’m working on
another CD right now that has government records dealing with advanced propulsion systems. A lot of
people aren’t even aware of the fact that we are working on Warp Drive, speculating about manipulating
wormholes in space, and also anti-matter drive. They think this is all stuff of science fiction, I have
government documents where I can prove what I just told you is not science fiction but science fact and
we’re working on it.
M.S. Thank you, I would appreciate all of that information. A question about 2001 National Press Club
interview you were on … according to an [earlier] interview you were actually encouraged to go to that
Press Club [Conference] by the covert authorities monitoring you, so why did they encourage you to go to
that Press Conference? What does that signify?
C.S. The fact behind it is that they didn’t feel overly threatened by me going; actually initially I wasn’t going
to go. I don’t know if Paola [Harris] told you that but initially I was not going to go. There were several
other times where I had been invited, when they had it in the years prior, and even my supervisor was
approached and told that I was not to have leave at that time. But things worked out, it’s like things falling
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into place to where I got to go and there was no effort to try to prevent me from going.
So a lot of the people felt that they were sanctioning me going there.
When it comes to the UFO field, the U.S., government doesn’t care about what you say; they care a whole
lot about what you can prove. For example, if you were to come here and ask me to go to Corona with
you to the crash site, I won’t go. The last time I was out there was in 1987 and a lot of people think that
threats made there at that time, they no longer apply. Yes, they do. We went out there to gather pieces
from a cave, we found the cave, we hit up on the pieces. I can’t tell you where that cave is, I couldn’t
probably even find it, but if I should happen upon it, I’ve already talked about some of the things that could
be in that cave so therefore if it was there it would give strong circumstantial evidence that I was there
before.
And the possibility of certain things that we may have overlooked, which I doubt, might still be there and
other people finding things. If you ever saw the pieces of what really crashed here, there’d be no doubt in
your mind that the material, you don’t have to touch it. Just seeing it, you would know it’s something you
never saw before. Back then you’d have absolutely have known that it was not of this world. When I had
Ralph Pike here, he got to see bits ‘n pieces because I had in a cigar box and I was waiting for a person
to come and pick it up. And of course, I had to be armed at that time and I told him don’t ask questions,
don’t even pick it up, and I was sorry that he saw it. But he knew, without even touching it, he knew.
M.S. Can you maybe speculate a little about your role in a possible acclimation program? I mean you
have a lot of information, you have a lot of documents, and you’re able to give this out to the general
public. Is this just a result of you being aware of the boundaries that you should not cross in order to
preserve your own safety and security, or is it because there is an acclimation program and you may
actually be a part of this?
C.S. Well, I’m hoping that I’m doing something worthwhile by trying to get information out there. In other
words, in having people read the documentation and think on their own, and I cannot see a person
reading the documentation and not coming away saying, you know there’s something to the UFO
phenomenon that we still don’t have answers for; and if there’s an intelligence behind it, that intelligence
didn’t originate on this Earth. And that right there is actually my goal, my goal is to get people to go ahead,
think on their own, read the documentation, and come to their own conclusions.
And if they read the documentation with an open mind there’s no way, no way that a person can come
away and say there’s nothing to UFOs. There’s no way they can come and say there’s no intelligence
behind the phenomenon. There’s no way they can come away and say, gee, this is just some of our new
inventions, and this is some of our new technology. No, its not. That technology in 1947 is the same
technology that’s being observed with UFOs today. And we didn’t have that technology in 1947; we
cannot replicate some of the things that UFOs do even to this day.
Most people, if you had a UFO flying high in the sky, most people would
ignore [it]. Today, in order for a UFO to be reported, a person has to see
a UFO up close; and it has to be an incident of high strangeness, or it’s
simply an incident that’s totally ignored.
The CIA when they released their report they said they did it in 1997.
Actually it was in 1995 when they said the Air Force even lied to cover
up some of our Top Secret aircraft, like the U2 and the SR-71 [image on
left]. Well the whole story in a nutshell is that I defy the Central
Intelligence community or the Air Force to produce 10 documents
showing where a UFO was in reality a U2 or SR-71.
I’m telling you right now they can’t do that, therefore that particular part of the article is an outright lie. The
Continental Air Intelligence Command, later to be the United States Air Force Intelligence Command, they
would have had a record, maybe Top Secret, because what you see in Blue Book is not all the records as
they are since you have documentation that was classified at a Top Secret level. Blue Book was only
classified for Secret, anything Top Secret and above; meaning Top Secret and Sensitive Compartmented
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Information could not be part of Blue Book.
Another good example, everybody thinks that little report they have in there [Project BlueBook], the
Project Twinkle final report, they think that’s the report on the Green fireball phenomena. It is not, that
report is yet to surface. That’s why you have that little statement there that says back in the 1950’s [Blue
Book] was looking at the Green Fireball phenomenon. The final report has never been made public to the
US government. They’re not referring to that report in there (Project BlueBook) that I think had a
confidential rating, they’re referring to a Top Secret report. Now how do I know there was a Top Secret
report? Simply put, the FBI files make reference to the meetings and the staff studies that were being
done on the Green Fireball phenomenon, some of those papers are at a Top Secret level.
There’s no mention of those documents in the Blue Book files. As a matter of fact, the only thing you have
short of case studies are case reports dealing with the Green Fireball phenomenon is that final report, but
that is not the final report having the recommendations and conclusions. That report makes it clear that
they couldn’t come up with any answers. It also makes it clear, that these were, at the time you couldn’t
say interplanetary, therefore they said these objects were of a category of their own outside of the other
reported UFOs, and that these definitely were man made objects.
Now ‘man made’ meaning they were artificial, we now know that no power on the face of this planet made
them, so who did make them? We also know that we should have found debris where they would have
impacted with the Earth if they were meteors or man made objects. However, that never happened, Dr
Lincoln La Paz was one of the people who observed a green fireball, and said this is some type of
mechanical devise and of course he said it was man made. Once again his credentials prevent him to say
any possibility of them being interplanetary, but he stopped short of saying they were interplanetary. He
was very good at finding impact sites of meteors, not one impact site of the green fireballs was ever
located….
M.S. I want to ask, in an earlier interview that has been done you described an agent who was assigned
to observe you who calls you ‘Colonel’, why is that?
C.S. Well, I didn’t know what to call him, he acted like an army Colonel so I called him Colonel.
M.S. I see so there was no incident where you were called ‘the Colonel’.
C.S. No, the only time I was called an officer was a couple of occasions where I had to go undercover and
posed as an Air Force Lieutenant.
M.S. There is an incident where Kevin Randle [pictured right] says that you pointed
to a sticker on your car that was supposedly a blue sticker used by officers, and
Kevin Randle said something about that was only for officers rather than NCOs, and
he used that as a means to try to debunk your case. Do you recall that incident with
Kevin Randle?
C.S. No, I didn’t point that out to him at all; I didn’t want it to be pointed out to him.
And he’s a hundred percent wrong. Your sticker is blue, it used to be that red was for
NCOs, well now your sticker is blue, but for the year, for the ending year that time,
and I assume its still the same way, I had an officer’s sticker. It was Ralph [Pike] that pointed it to him and
Ralph’s Dad was in the Air Force, he was retired Air Force. Ralph knew and the reason he was impressed
about it, I tried not to call attention to it, but yes I had to have that sticker for that period of time.
M.S. And that was only because there was a change over from red and blue that you had that sticker?
C.S. No, I had to go some place where only officers were supposed to go. One thing it was an officer’s
sticker. For the ending year that would have been red, your sticker is blue, for the ending year if you’re a
Non-Comm it’s red, now I think they have multicolors for all different things … There’s a caste system in
the military, so you had blue for officers, red for Non-Comm’s, orange for junior enlisted, and green for
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civilians. Now it used to be that the whole sticker was that way, but then they changed it to where you get
a blue sticker now that says Department of Defense and all that good stuff, you have a sticker underneath
that says like Cannon Air Force base. Well that color also mandates the status of that person whether
they are civilian, enlisted or officer. Well mine was 100% blue.
He’s [Randle] making reference to the DOD sticker that has to be there on the car, and not the Air base or
installation from which it came which should have been red. Not the end of the year or the year it should
have expired which should have been red, but mine was blue. It was a friend of mine, Ralph Pike that
pointed out to him. The reason Ralph pointed it out to him was that Ralph didn’t even notice it. So we went
to the gate at Holloman Air Force base and as soon as they see it and recognize it as an officer’s they had
to salute. So I was being saluted, and he said: “what kind of sticker do you have on your car?” [I said:]
“The guy’s probably just mistaken me for someone who works here, so we got out.” He said, “you’ve got
an officer’s sticker on your car.” So I just tried to play it off.
M.S. That officer’s sticker on your car that was purely so you could have access to certain parts of the
base where only officers could go, and this was during your retirement?
C.S. This was right at the end of my retirement. It was the first year of retirement that that was there.
M.S. So, you still had access to certain areas in that first year of your retirement on a military base where
only officers could go.
C.S. Yes
M.S. Was that related to you doing some follow up work?
C.S. Yes it was. There were two bases involved, well actually three, but two where I needed to get
locations where upon entering there would be that recognition of officer’s status, and when I got there,
there would be recognition as a civilian consultant.
M.S. So the implication there is that even though you were officially retired in 1990 that you still were
playing a role using the skills that you had acquired primarily as an interface [with extraterrestrials] for the
military. They would just call you when they had a need?
C.S. No, I think it was more like tracking me, “what am I doing now a days and all that good stuff”. They
knew I was working on the first book that I was actually going to put out while I was in the military. It was
called, “UFOs let the Evidence Speak for Itself”. Actually there are words in there that people think are
misspelt, if they knew the meaning of the word they’d know it’s not misspelt. And of course I provided
three times for a classification of security review, and each time the manuscript got lost. So I went ahead
and self-published it.
That book came out and there were some concerns about some of the stuff that I was saying in there, and
some of the documents that was in there, and what I might still have. So there was always that, well you
know we still have an interest in this case here, and oh by the way you were involved in this case here,
and you’d go actually over a couple of cups of coffees a debriefing. Only they wouldn’t try to set it up like a
debriefing. Stuff like you and the other guy talking, he was taking notes and you could be rest assured that
the conversation was being recorded.
M.S. In terms of yourself and your retirement, in what ways have you been monitored? Are you aware of
any kind of special mechanism to monitor someone like you that is playing a role in releasing a lot of
information?
C.S. Oh, there was a couple of times when the media was here that strange things happened. There was
one person here recording … she was here one morning and I can’t remember what it was she was
recording, but while she was here as a matter of fact I got a call and was told be very careful what I say,
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be very careful with what I show. I think that had to do with the fact that one of the news articles that went
out when I was here I had a big black book on the table, and I had a roll of super 8 mm film.
Of course they took pictures of it, one roll which was loose laying by itself. Nobody even noticed that, and
that one I would say is interesting. I won’t go into detail into what was on it, but that was more interesting
than the other. But that got the message out when the picture appeared in the newspaper that I had those
three items, that no effort was made until I got careless talking to another UFO researcher [by phone] and
he said do you have the you-know-what still there, and finally he mentioned it? Well the you-know-what
was film footage of the “Holloman Landing”, so I’m going to say it this time, “they got that back”. And that
was within minutes after the phone call.
M.S. With that Holloman landing what year did that occur and what did it show?
C.S. I firmly believe that that happened in 1965, I firmly believe that was when the incident occurred. The
lead on the film had April 25, 1965 on it, as part of the info as to when the film was taken and everything,
and also referred to SSP which was Special Studies Project. It made no reference to Blue Book. That
Special Studies Project, I can’t remember anything else that was on the lead, it was on the very first part
of the tape when you put it on the spool. It showed a roughly circular craft coming in for a landing at
Holloman Air Force base, I believe there were three people that got out.
One person got in a sedan, a Ford Galaxy, a 1965 Ford Galaxy with several officers and drove off. It
looked like some kind of communication had taken place before they got into the vehicle and drove off.
There were several other vehicles there, probably about 20 people, that was involved. Not all of them in
military uniform at the landing.
Also, it was quite clear that they knew the landing was going
to occur. It [the film] initially shows how they are setting up
the field, setting up the cameras, getting ready, it makes
reference to a test launch of a missile that was going to be
tested. I don’t believe it was a missile that was going to be
tested; they start showing this little speck of light off there in
the distance.
It gets closer and closer until finally you can see definition of
it. Landing gear comes down, it comes down directly down
to ground, a door underneath the carriage opens up, drops
down and the three entities walk out.
One goes to the left, stands to the left side of the craft, one goes to the right, the entity that for lack of a
better term is the leader comes out, and carries on a conversation with the officer. Well I can tell you that
it was a full bird Colonel that was there.
M.S. What did the extraterrestrial look like?
C.S. Roughly five foot, actually five foot four, and I had some people tell me it looked like it had Indian
features. To me the features were more oriental. The pupils of the eyes were a little different than our
pupil, and I’d say even more so like cat’s eyes. They had olive skin, the suit that it had on was a tight
fitting jump suit complete all the way over the head with just the face appearing. They had a darker
complexion, it’s hard to describe the complexion, but not white not gray. The nose seemed a little out of
place, larger than what you’d expect…
M.S. In some interview, I believe it was with Paola [Harris], you mentioned that you knew of, or the
government was aware of 57 ET races, where did you get that information from?
C.S. That information was from a little publication that they had that the person I called the Colonel always
carried [with] him. … It was a little booklet that he carried, actually a little thick booklet, a loose leaf
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notebook type situation. But the intent of cataloguing the different species was so that they could render
the best first aid they could in identifying which species they had at any given location.
M.S. Did you ever take a look at this little booklet or was it something he told you about?
C.S. No, no, I got to see and got to look at it. He was pretty good with me. As a matter of fact even when I
got out, from time to time I’d still have contact with him.
M.S. With that little booklet, how did it describe the races was it a kind of genotype in terms of physical
characteristic or was it from star system of origin?
C.S. The way they would break it down is like they would have various types. For example like when it
came to the Grays they had the 3 foot, 3½ foot category, they would go ahead and write type, 1 type 2,
type 3. They moved on to the ones that had human characteristics, then they would go ahead and identify
by a code, the entity there. Like, they would have like “zebra-harry dosh”. So this right here would be ones
that are like 3, 3½ feet tall, but they were covered with hair.
Another one would be like “able-[Yeti] what’s the word? It’s a word we use all the time like ‘abominable
snow man’ [Yeti]. This would be the tall hairy creature. They would go ahead and have like Charlie 1,
Charlie 2, all the way to I think to Charlie 5. And humanoid, and they would go ahead and have “Earth
based 1”, ‘Earth based 2’, ‘Earth based 3’. Now this right here, that code meant something to the Colonel.
See to you and I it wouldn’t mean anything. It would give us a description. It would also either include a
drawing or a photograph. So it wasn’t just one or two pages on each entity you had ten, fifteen pages …
[for a booklet of about 1000 pages].
M.S. Can you explain how operational security was maintained for the retrieval projects you worked on?
C.S. So, we call it something like Operation or Project Horsefly akin to Project Bluefly. Well you didn’t do
that. Bluefly was already there. Bluefly could handle it all. Now, you have an extraterrestrial spacecraft,
then fine, you have a whole new avenue where you send the debris and everything, versus the avenue of
the aftermath of a crash of an aircraft. But up to that point it’s all the same, and that’s where people get
off. They don’t stop to think you don’t reinvent the wheel. You have 35 or so, up to 70 if you have both
teams there. Military people who are doing a normal function, outside of the fact now for the first time they
realize they are face to face with something not of this world. But they are never going to be able to talk
about it.
That, up to that time, the policy is already there in place for things like nuclear, biological, chemical
accidents, crash of aircraft.
You also have what we call “officially sanctioned deception programs” should any information leak out to
try to nullify or minimize any damage by information leaking out. “Hey that wasn’t a pipe craft that
crashed”, that was a thirty foot saucer. So you have that already in place, you have your PR people there,
public affairs that are ready to go out and try to nullify if any information got out to the contrary – if you
check. Well a good example is what happened here at Roswell.
It was the Air Force themselves that released the fact that it was a flying disk that was recovered, that was
an accident. It wasn’t an accident when they went ahead and exposed a Top Secret program to keep
people from asking questions about something that was more important, i.e., the recovery of a crashed
disk. But, they came out and said we have a captured disk. And the next day they came out and said,
“nope nothing more than a weather balloon”. And of course there was all this debris that was mentioned.
Well, how do you go ahead and nullify that? Well, I believe it was the Air Force that comes out with a story
of the multiple balloon and rolling targets they were testing at Holloman Air Force base. Well, what they
were talking about was Project Mogul. Project Mogul at the time was a Top Secret project. Yet there it
was in black and white for the whole world to see. So what they did was they exposed Top Secret Project
Mogul to cover for whatever it was they recovered here [at Roswell].
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Those programs are already put into place. There’s no detour from the procedure, until one, you’ve got a
UFO; two, that book that has been referred to (if you ever hear them mention ‘the bible’, that’s what they
are talking about) that tells you the details you need to take. And your time is limited, because rest
assured a rescue party is on its way to recover any of their dead or any of their injured, or those that are
still alive. The one thing I don’t believe in is pickled bodies.
MS: Did you ever, when your were doing any retrievals, actually witness some of the retrieval teams of
the ETs themselves coming to get their own people? Was this something you ever witnessed?
C.S. I was close but no cigar… Actually I had to be put close and be on standby and that right there was a
little situation that took place at Lamboy Woods there in Germany.
M.S. My last question is about the system set up to oversee all these [UFO related] projects. Do you have
any information about the so called MJ-12 committee or PI-40? Any information about who’s actually in
charge of the projects and how these decisions are made?
C.S. No, I don’t. During all my time in there I never heard MJ-12, I never heard Majestic. But that doesn’t
mean [they aren’t real], that’s why I keep an open mind. I’m not ready to accept the MJ-12 documents
right now, but I do keep an open mind on it. I believe Ryan Wood, I’ve met him personally; I don’t believe
that he would be trying to perpetrate a hoax or something like that. I honestly don’t believe he is of that
caliber. He honestly believes in those documents. That’s my honest opinion of Ryan. But by me not
seeing them and not being exposed to them, that doesn’t mean that they weren’t there. It’s like Moon Dust
and Bluefly, working in Moon Dust and Bluefly I still didn’t know what the names were. It was quite by
accident that I found out, that caused me to start asking.
M.S. That was the series of questions I had down prior to the interview, so I just want to leave it open now
for you. If there’s anything you want to say that lies ahead [for you]? Anything you have planned, activities
to continue to release information or some other activity you’re involved in with regard to what you’ve
experienced?
C.S. Well, as for me, I’m going to continue to push to try to get the documentation that I know is there; that
I know was not destroyed; that proves conclusively we are not alone in the universe; and that we know it.
The documentation that will prove that UFOs are a reality, that people have seen them. The
documentation that will prove once and for all that they are interplanetary. I’m also going to continue to
release on CD, documents as I said on UFOs and also to the best of my abilities on various other such
stuff such as missile defense, space debris, advanced concepts and advanced technology, because I
believe a lot of people aren’t aware of where we are trying to go and I am quite certain that when it comes
to the advanced propulsion systems as it applies to space travel we have made quantum leaps. You don’t
go from Neanderthal man, to a certified CPA in New York. There has to be some time of evolution that
takes place there, and what I’m seeing is that you have a selfless camel and then all of a sudden you
have interstellar space craft.
You have the Department of Defense R&D that comes out with some very interesting technology; then
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they give it to private enterprise and say, “this is what we’ve come up with, see what you can do with it
now.” So it looks like it came from public sectors, but in reality it came from military sectors. But that’s
where the tie in kind of breaks off, the Department of Defense R&D is constantly putting new technology
into the hands of universities and private enterprise.
That technology is then being assessed as our own technology and even further improved because they
have more minds better involved in doing the R& D on that particular technology. But the one thing that’s
missing is the evolution of that technology, say from microchip to becoming a fully fledged computer. In
short, some of our technology, while we may have improved it, it still is not as good as they have, and we
got the idea from them and we got a boost from them.
I don’t want to take anything away from the intelligence of man, we would eventually get there all on our
own, but I think we are being pushed ahead by some of the technology we are coming into contact with.
We are not going to be able to back engineer an entire craft but rest assured we can back engineer
crudely some bits and pieces. After all, if your technology is at the state of what we have today, and you
come into possession of technology that may be one to two billion years … ahead of us, I suggest we
have no idea of what the state of the art technology is in the year 2055 let alone one to two billion years
down the road…
M.S. Thank you for your time it’s really been very helpful, you’ve given me much information and a lot to
think about. I really
Return to Michael Salla
Return to The Saga of Flying Objects
Return to Clifford Stone - Alien Races And
Descriptions
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by Dr Michael E. Salla
July 20, 2005
Exopolitics Journal 1:1 (October 2005)
from ExopoliticsJournal Website
Specialist Sergeant Clifford Stone (ret.) spent twenty two years serving in the U.S. Army (1969-1990) where he claims
he was covertly assigned to elite UFO crash retrieval teams known as projects Moon Dust and Blue Fly. Sergeant
Stone testifies that he was recruited for this covert service upon his enlistment into the U.S. Army and secretly served
for 22 years without his immediate commanders, military colleagues and family knowing about this.
What follows is the transcript of an exclusive interview conducted with Sgt Stone on July 20, 2005 where he describes
how his specialized training was done in a way that wasn’t recorded in his military record; how he would be secretly
summoned to his classified assignments without his regular army commander knowing; and the actual duties he
performed when secret teams were tasked with the retrieval of extraterrestrial vehicles and recovery of extraterrestrial
biological entities, both dead and alive.
Sgt Stone’s testimony is both startling and revealing in terms of the information it provides in how ordinary military
servicemen are forced to served in elite service units concerning UFOs without being fully briefed, being deprived of the
normal career recognition and benefits that occur for regular service in the U.S. military; and intimidated into
maintaining secrecy.
All this is done without regular military commanders being aware of this thereby suggesting a shadowy military force
existing within the United States military and the military of other countries that is exclusively responsible for UFO
related issues. What follows is the first in a two part exclusive interview on Clifford Stone’s experiences on these
covert UFO crash retrieval teams.
*I wish to thank Paola Harris who kindly contacted Sgt Stone to arrange this interview with him.
Abbreviations:
M.S. (Dr Michael Salla)
C.S. (Sgt Clifford Stone)
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Part 1.
Covert Service on Project Moon Dust and UFO Crash Retrievals
M.S. Can you briefly outline how you were recruited for UFO crash retrievals and the principal military
departments involved?
C.S. Well, I joined the Army, and outside of that I can’t say any other organization. It was just that you
were brought into it. There was another organization that had nothing to do with the army, I know that
because when I put in my retirement, my retirement was approved until this other organization found out
[Ed. the ‘organization’ is the ‘control group’ for UFO related affairs]. Then I was
attached to Fort Bliss pending approval of my retirement, and I can prove that
my retirement was already approved. I have documentation on that, but the
less you knew the more comfortable they felt.
Also, what a lot of people overlook is if we use the word ‘recruited’ into this
field, was they need certain talents certain people have. What happens is that
they have control of it. You have no control whatsoever. I don’t know if that
makes any sense or not but they really do. And I am sure it started when I was
a child. Initially when I tried to enlist in the army I was … rejected from military
service, that was in December, 1967. And I was permanently rejected from
military service. I was classified as 4F, and I would assume that the Draft
Board has a record of that.
M.S. Can you confirm whether you did any training as ‘typist’ which is on your
military record and how this related to the actual training you did for the
specialized activities you performed? …
C.S. Which needs clarification because no one has ever gotten that straight. OK, I went into the military
and when I enlisted, I enlisted for MOS, Military Occupational Specialty 71B, which is clerk typist. I was
then and am to this very day a lousy clerk typist. I can’t type worth heck, but the situation is I tried for other
MOS’s but they said “don’t rock the boat because you were . . . rejected from military service so let’s just
take it easy, admin., not a problem.” Well, I went into that, going through Basic [Training], had some
situations with UFO’s while I was in Basic that made it clear that somebody already knew that prior to
getting into the service I had an interest in UFO’s.
It didn’t all start to click together until I got to AIT [Advanced Individual Training]. At AIT I went ahead and I
was supposed to be trained as a clerk typist, but when you first get to AIT there are a couple of days you
don’t go into training. Normally they started on a Monday and I got there one day during the week, other
than Monday, so my training didn’t start until the following Monday, so they put me on ‘Detail’. And initially
I was handing out medical records at the hospital there, when people came in. That went for two or three
days.
When I was supposed to start training they had me up on a cleaning detail and sent me to the post
headquarters which also housed the G2 office, which was military intelligence. There was a person there
who was on special duty to Ozarks in South Carolina and he went ahead and was very interested in what
I knew about UFO’s, up to and including the point where he was showing me things that were highly
classified. I knew what Top Secret meant. I didn’t know what the letters meant after Top Secret at that
time. Now I do know what they stand for . . . and I was a little concerned because I didn’t have a
clearance at that time. After I got through Basic and got through AIT which he told me he would keep in
touch when he left.
I went to my first permanent duty station after leave, and that was 36 Civil Affairs Company, part of the 96
Civil Affairs Group at Fort Lee, Virginia. I announced to them immediately that I did not know anything
about typing, so the First Sergeant went ahead and said: “not only do you not know anything about typing
you are color blind too.” And I said, ‘Pardon me’, so he said: “I’ll be right back.” And he goes into the
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company commander and tells the company commander something and the company commander comes
out.
The company commander asks me what branch of service did I enlist into, and I said “Sir, I enlisted into
the United States Army, it should be obvious on here”. He said: “do you know the difference between blue
and green”, and I found the question kind of ridiculous, but I said “yes sir, I do”, and he said, “Ok”.
So they told me at that time, OK you say you can’t type, would you mind being the unit NBC [Nuclear,
Biological, and Chemical] communications noncommissioned
officer? And I said “sure, what does
that encompass?” Well, we have to send you to
school, so it wasn’t no more than a month of so later
that I ended up going to school at Fort MacCallum,
Alabama.
It was a three week course in the unit NBC, noncommissioned
officer. Upon completion of that I came
back to my unit and when I came back to my unit it
was just taking care of the protective masks, the
protective NBC protective equipment. I have the
communications equipment which also consisted of
several quick 25’s, which are field radios, little more
than a hundred 312’s which were filled telephones
and switchboard that we had, which was an SP22
switchboard.
A month after that I was assigned to be on the quick reaction group in the event there was an NBC
incident that was to occur, then we would move out. Now under that guise I was used on at least three
occasions while I was there dealing with UFOs.
M.S. You say that you participated in a training program for UFO crash retrieval teams under the rubric of
Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Weapons Crisis Response Team. Is this training generic for all types of
NBC crises including UFO crash retrievals, or was your training specifically for UFO crash retrievals and
associated NBC problems?
C.S. It was generic for all NBC situations. When it came to UFO’s the general stance was they didn’t exist
so they didn’t go out of there way to make believers out of people who were involved in that. You were
hand picked by somebody, and that somebody wasn’t army officials. That somebody’s personal opinion
[was] in the Alphabet Soup of the intelligence community of the United States.
I can’s say CIA, DIA or who. They hand picked you. And when you went there and there was a UFO
incident, and you knew it was a UFO incident, the protocol went basically the same. And you were always
debriefed being told it was a Soviet space craft, it was a Stealth aircraft, it was one of our aircraft. If you
saw the craft you knew better.
M.S. Were NBC units used for normal duties in addition to specialized crash retrieval duties?
C.S. Oh absolutely. Like rule number one, don’t use an NBC unit when it comes to UFO’s. Don’t use an
NBC unit on a quick reaction call on a UFO more than one time. Because what happens is that the people
… normally have clearances between confidential and secret, mostly secret. But if you’re involved in a
recovery of even debris of a UFO, then what happens is now its top secret/SCI, meaning that Top Secret
Sensitive Compartmented Information, which requires more than a Top Secret clearance to view the
material.
And that would be on a one time basis; however, they would have people in there that they hand picked
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that would be involved throughout their career dealing with UFO’s. And they would also go ahead and
make the determination on assignment where those people go to try and have them in pre-position in
locations where they anticipated there would be some kind of UFO related activity.
M.S. Did you speak to others participating in the NBC Crisis training and were they also involved in UFO
crash retrieval duties?
C.S. Oh absolutely. The one thing that people have a problem with and is hard for them to understand is
that the best protection is to have situations where you have real life, every day events that can occur and
have contingency plans for life for them. Now if a UFO crashes, those thing’s [UFOs] contingency plan
works very good for the recovery of items. Of course where they go is entirely different and the protocol is
a little different, not much but a little different. For example, not everything is classified if you have an NBC
accident, a nuclear, biological, chemical accident.
But if you have an incident of “high strangeness” involving an object of unknown origin, that’s how they
refer to them. Then there is a total blackout on any type of information. Before you could call or do
anything, you had to go ahead and be debriefed. If you were there for three days or better you couldn’t
call home to check on the family, you couldn’t do anything. You had to go ahead and wait for the
debriefing before you could call home or say anything. Then of course you couldn’t talk about the event
and the contingency was always part of the debriefing. Even though you knew better it was always fallen
space debris that we had sent up. They didn’t want any diplomatic incidents so they steered clear.
There were a couple of times there were Soviet space debris, but they still declared it being a UFO. So
you were involved in assisting with that. But you only had two teams. You had the A team which had to go
ahead and arrive there within two hours of the event. The B team would show up within four hours of the
event. They came from different locations. You never had them come, and when I was working there at
Fort Lee, they always had 72 hour alert facility, which meant there were people in that alert facility for 72
hours at a time….
M.S. Is NBC training classified information, or are only those who serve on Project Moon Dust that don’t
have this training recorded on their military record?
C.S. During the training it was mundane training. I mean it was normal training and NBC period. It was
classified; the lowest classification in any block of instruction was at least confidential, ranging from
confidential to secret. But keep in mind it had a real world
mission. Everybody getting trained there was... the intent
wasn’t to go ahead and recover extraterrestrial vehicles or
debris thereof, that was not the intent of NBC.
Now when you come to Moon Dust and Blue Fly, it wasn’t
the initial intent of Moon Dust and Blue Fly for the recovery
of extraterrestrial vehicles, however, it’s covered by
objects of “Unknown Origin. UFO’s you try and steer clear
of, extraterrestrial anything you try to keep away from. The
one thing you use is ‘Object of Unknown Origin’. But I was
close enough to know that in some of the incidences that’s
what we were involved with, vehicles not of this world.
M.S. Was your military record purged of any mention of the specialized training you did for NBC training
and for the crash retrieval teams, and only reflects your ‘cover position’ as a clerical administrative typist?
C.S. Actually it does. Actually one of the biggest mistakes they did, is that, and I can send you a copy of it,
it was the fact that I spent 14 months at Fort MacCallum, Alabama. I spent two months at Fort Lee,
Virginia, and 14 months at Fort MacCallum, Alabama, TDY, and it reflects me being TDY. Well, one, [an]
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Executive Order from the President of the United States was that you could not be TDY for more than 179
days.
Two, it was a three week course, it was then, it is to this day a three week course. So, what does it reflect
by the way? It reflects I went Fort Lee, then TDY to Fort MacCallum, then went to Vietnam. In reality that
is not the case. I have my medical records reflecting that I went to the dispensary during the time I was
supposed to be at Fort MacCallum outside of the three week period that I was there attending the NBC
course. I also have a certificate of achievement for my tenure there at Fort Lee, Virginia.
M.S. What was the “certificate of achievement” for?
C.S. It was in relation to doing ‘the job’.
M.S. Do you have any photos or evidence of having done the NBC course?
C.S. That occurred in 1969, not right off the top of my hat. But the nice thing about it is that it does give
the course, so when some of the people got a copy of that, they could go ahead and head up on the
course number and they even took pictures. I’ve lived a strange life, I don’t have a copy of the picture I did
have. I don’t have a copy of my certificate but I can get that. I know for a fact I can get that. I just haven’t,
how can I put this? For me UFO’s isn’t a business, I know what I am saying to be true because I lived it.
And you know a person can either believe or disbelieve. That’s not what I am about, and right now one of
the big things is with the documentation and trying to get the Air Force to move ahead, and I know Moon
Dust and Blue Fly has a lot of material that they haven’t released. They will either say it is misplaced, it
was destroyed, but that is an out-and-out lie. They have even told members of Congress of that.
M.S. Is there anyone that you served with that you can remember that I may be able to contact?
C.S. One name that comes to mind is, I think his last name was Jacks. Now he won’t be hard to locate he
was at Fort Belvoir and he was at that time army contingent to NSA, National Security Agency. As a
matter of fact my plane ticket was stolen and he actually gave me a ride back to Fort Lee Virginia.
M.S. Do you remember his Rank?
C.S. His was a Spec-5, Specialist fifth class.
M.S. Do you have a record of any others who did the NBC course with you?
C.S. They have the list of each class that went through there. Like I say my records look like that. I’ll
provide you a copy with my record DH2-1 because I know that … I was there only a couple of months at
Fort Lee, and then spent 14 months at Fort MacCallum. You can’t do that on TDY [Temporary Duty],
anybody that’s a private and serves two months in the Army knows that the maximum you can spend TDY
is a 179 days, not 14 months. Anything over 180 days, if you reach a 180 days you have to get what they
call PCS, which is Permanent Change of Status. I hope I’m making sense there.
M.S. After you were relocated to Germany as a result of your FOIA work [Stone has written a book based
on UFO documents released by his use of the Freedom of Information Act], can you say what happened
in terms of your continued work with the Project Moon Dust team?
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C.S. Well in Germany it was much more open because I was telling the people then because I was getting
disillusioned with some of the stuff we were doing. I never felt it was proper to try to make people look
crazy when you knew that what they were reporting was accurate to the best of their ability. In short, you
knew they saw an extraterrestrial vehicle. But our job was to convince them that what they saw was the
Northern Lights, aircraft in unusual circumstances, meteors, and you totally, you had to do this.
That’s the protocol [used] in [the] Estimate of the Situation in 1948, even [Project] Blue Book. You go to
the Project Sign, Report p. 10 (top of the page) which stipulates that we have looked at the possibility of
UFOs being extraterrestrial spacecraft and really there’s no validity to it. And this conclusion will never be
reviewed again barring hard physical evidence of all of this being examined and leaving extraterrestrial
spacecraft as the only possible explanation.
Because we know throughout Blue Book there was possible, probable aircraft; possible, probable
balloons; possible, probable astronomical phenomena. And after a year or so that became the conclusion
whether it fit the scenario or not. With the conclusion you have people say no, no, no, I saw the planet
Venus, it wasn’t planet Venus, well it was in the general proximity so now it became planet Venus. “No,
no, no, I saw the jets, or the jets were there.” But now ‘they’ became ‘the’ jet. A good example was the
Montana film in 1950 I believe, when the man filmed the UFOs but prior to that there was two F-94s
coming in for a landing.
He told the Air Force: “hey, I saw the jets, that’s not what these were.” It was easy to go ahead and
ascertain what the jets were. These came immediately after the jets, well if you know anything about the
approach pattern you could very quickly ascertain that these were not coming in out of their approach
pattern to land at that Air base. These were objects that had no intention of landing from any conventional
sense.
M.S. When in Germany, did you have a regular assignment and how did that change when you went on to
special duties with the recovery teams?
C.S. Oh, I was assigned in my proper MOS [Military Occupation Specialty], later they changed it 71 Lima
which was an administrative specialist and then I served time in Germany as a 75 Zulu which they
couldn’t award you that MOS because you had to be trained in it but I wasn’t, but I did a good job in it.
When it came to administration and taking care of my troops, I was very, very good at that; and that’s
what I did unless there was incident in the region you were in, and they decided they were going to use
you.
The code word that was used with me was “the general sends his regards”. I didn’t know if there was a
general involved or not since I never saw the general. I was told “bags to go”, so you grab your DA-50
bag, all your equipment will be packed and you kiss your wife and your children good bye and you left.
You never knew if you were going to see them again. There were accidents where people didn’t return.
M.S. How long were the crash retrieval assignments?
C.S. Normally, it would be anywhere between three to seven days. There was one incident where we had
an
ongoing situation, actually two, in which they went ahead and … one of them lasted almost three months.
Then my last time in Germany I went ahead and don’t know
how long that would have lasted since we had situations
going on in the Soviet Union and in Belgium.
And I got involved in that. And then there was also some
stuff going on in South Africa and I was told I would be
leading a company tour there, and that I would not be
expected to bring my family. That’s how I know for a fact
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that it wasn’t the Army that had control over this because I put in my request for retirement through army
channels and didn’t mention it to the powers that be on the other side that had operational control of the
UFO aspect.
They found out two days prior to me retiring that I was expected to report to Fort Bliss, I reported there
and they told me that they needed to reattach me since my retirement hadn’t been approved. I said: “no,
no, no, here’s a letter from my first Sergeant saying it, here’s a letter from my personnel center. It’s been
approved guys.” Nope, you don’t have any orders. I said the orders were cut back in my unit in Augsburg
Germany. I said you can call them, and they said no, no, the Department of the Army says you are to be
attached for two months here.
So I was supposed to get out effective on December, but I didn’t get out effective … until February 1,
1990. And the only reason I did that, the one guy I always called the Colonel; he told me well we are going
to keep you. So I went ahead and laid out each of those documents showing that there was something
wrong, I said you know there’s a letter, a very long letter that explains all this stuff here, with the regulation
that says barring we’re at war, you can’t do this to me.
Now they may not buy the UFO aspect of it but I’m sure some of the media are going to be asking
questions. So I convinced him my friend here in Roswell, a guy by the name of Ralph Pike had a hundred
fifty envelopes, and if he didn’t get a call from me midnight of that day saying I was getting out of the Army
that he was going to send those out. They were already packaged and ready to go. And at least some
would be asking questions about that. So I managed to get out and I got my retirement effective February
1st.
The only thing I couldn’t do, I couldn’t go through a retirement ceremony. The first Sergeant had to keep
me that whole day with him, at the unit I was attached to, and he didn’t like that at all. He felt I was being
treated unjust, it wasn’t morally right, I served 22 and half years in the service and I was entitled to the
recognition, but I didn’t mind that. The one thing I wanted was that I was getting out.
I had some problems here in Roswell believe it or not. Roswell hasn’t always been the UFO friendly city.
Matter of fact when I started saying here, what happened here happened [1947 crash], when I started
talking openly when I was assigned here there was efforts to try to court martial me and everything. I had
to be careful in what I said, and it wasn’t until the death of my son that I came out and told my family, “OK
look, here’s what I had been doing; when I was gone all those times, here’s what was going on”. Then I
told some other people, that’s when I first started talking.
M.S. How were the records purged of your specialized training while in the service?
C.S. For example I had to do some investigative work. In connection to that … I had to take MP courses,
and I took those. Then the Army even tried to do away [with that] so there’s no record of that even
happening. But I have the records from my 2-1’s that shows that I really did take those courses. One guy
he was a 71-M … which is a chaplain’s assistant, he was a person who took pictures, he was a
photographer, but by Military Occupation Specialty (MOS) he was in fact a chaplain’s assistant.
The military provided the commercial means, the camera equipment that he needed, even to developing
his own film. They even sent to school. He was trained at Texas Central College and the University of
Maryland….
M.S. Did you write your experiences and why did you decide to go public?
C.S. Ok, she [my wife] had stuff that I had started to write right prior to the death of my son that was
actually going to be intended just for my family at the time of my death. But I’m working on it now trying to
get it out. When I went into the military, the Vietnam War was on, and I really wanted to get in because I
believed I had a moral obligation to serve my country.
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And whether I recognized Vietnam as a war or not is immaterial, it [Vietnam] was at war, my country was
at war and I had an obligation to serve my country. So when I got in I was very thankful that I got in. But,
as I always said, my momma didn’t raise no fool; so I wasn’t going to bring up the subject of UFOs in the
military. But the subject was brought up to me and slowly but surely I was slowly indoctrinated into it.
It was supposedly at a seminar for the NBC officers, what we call the OIC, the Officers in Charge, of the
NBC quick reaction team that we saw, myself and another airman. I was in the army, we had Air Force,
Army, Navy, Marines all involved, the unit, the NBC non-commissioned officer all of them are trained there
at Fort MacCallum, Alabama. It makes no difference if they were Army, Air Force, Navy or Marines, they
are trained there.
But we were up there when we first thought we were seeing trailers of sci-fi movies, but you know we both
thought we had seen them all and we could not identify some of the things we were seeing. It wasn’t too
long after that that we were no longer alone. And they took us and actually threw us into the panel van
and took us to a wooden frame one story building and kept us there. For him [the airman] it was three
days, for me it went for a total of five. That was a Monday and I didn’t get out until that Friday.
M.S. With the documents that you have in your possession, I have read
that some of those are classified, I just want to know how you have access
to those if they are still classified as opposed to de-classified documents
where there’s no offense in having those in possession. So do you still
have classified documents and if so why?
C.S. One, I wouldn’t want to lie to you; and two, that’s a question I
wouldn’t answer over the phone. You know the old adage that right now
it’s a violation of title 18 USC section 793-799 if you have any kind of
classified documentation in your possession, and that carries a $10,000
fine and ten years imprisonment on each count. Since UFOs are not
supposed to exist, the US government can’t really come after me for
having something that would be non-existent.
M.S. In the 1980’ and 90s you begin to initiate a series of FOIA requests that got a lot of information on
projects Moon Dust and Blue Fly so was it your service on the crash retrieval teams and the knowledge
you gained through those assignments that basically led to those requests being made?
C.S. Well, actually it goes back to the late 1970s when I was in Europe, I’d get certified and confidential
packets from the government because they already knew that I had certain information that didn’t look like
it was in some of those documents, and as an end result they would send those where I had to sign for
them. A couple of times they would send them: “to the Commander of”. The Navy is notorious for that. Of
course, the commander had no idea of why they were doing that.
He was aware of my interest in UFOs, and when my wife complained about me spending a lot of long
hours working, both my commander and first Sergeant said: “OK you’re right, he’s lost leave time, he’s
working seven days a week; we need to put an end to that.” But of course, they couldn’t whenever there
was a UFO incident or something came up, you were gone, it was that simple. It’s not like having a job
where you can say: “I don’t like this work, I quit.” You can’t do that in the military.
So it was a situation where there was nothing my commander and my first Sergeant could do, and what
made it more worse was they couldn’t explain it to my wife. Actually they didn’t know. All they knew was
that there was something involved with UFOs that was having me put in those long hours. They didn’t
know what. They knew about the mail I was getting that it would be registered and certified. They also
knew that FOIA did not work that way. There should be no need for the added expense for registered mail
and certified mail. And also I always had the ‘snowflake’ there where I would have to sign for the
documentation. The ‘snowflake’ reflected that it was a FOIA request, unclassified, but the intent of that
was that if I ever go ahead and release information that was above and beyond what was in those
documents I’d be held accountable.
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M.S. So from the late 1970’s and onwards you put in all of those FOIA requests using your own personal
experiences to basically get the most sensitive information that would then give you a cover to speak
more about exactly what was happening?
C.S. Absolutely, for example, there exists a form, a document, titled “Aid to Identify UFOs”. Now that
document is put out by Wright Patterson, the equivalent of the Air Tactical Intelligence Center, or the Air
Foreign Intelligence Center is what I think they call it now, to aid them in identifying UFO reports that are
submitted through the CIRVIS channel [Communications Instructions for Reporting Vital Intelligence
Sightings].
Now a lot of people think that the Air Force doesn’t investigate UFOs any more. Well, Air Force Instruction
(AFI) 10-206, chapter 5, dated March 10, 2004, still requires as a matter of routine reporting procedures
that certain items be reported as matters of vital intelligence to the security of the United States and the
North American continent.
One of those items is UFO’s and they go into great detail as to what type of information needs to be
provided when reporting a UFO, that’s in that same chapter. If you see an unidentified submarine, no big
gig, you know it’s a submarine. If you see an unidentified
aircraft, no big gig you know it’s a conventional type aircraft. If
you see unusual troop movements, unusual military vehicle
movements, you know what all those are. You go ahead and
report the make up of those, configuration of the aircraft, any
outstanding features on the submarine, all this stuff, not a real
problem.
But when it comes to UFOs, now you have a problem…
anything that would indicate that there was some type of
advanced technology that was involved. And of course that
doesn’t mean they are looking for an interplanetary
spacecraft, but they can come right back and say, you know
an unconventional aircraft is going to appear as a UFO to an
observer who’s never observed one before. So they always
have that to come back on.
However, to eliminate all possibilities, while this document is
not classified, it’s for internal use only. And it ties in with the
NORAD Instruction, I think it’s 10-19; which, with a CIRVIS
report, it’s supposed to be sent to NORAD, and they are
supposed to ascertain threat or no threat. Well in order to
ascertain threat or no threat you have to ascertain origin of the
object and what the object was.
It’s just like July 26, 2002, the UFOs over Washington D.C.,
the Air Force didn’t have much to say about that. They
referred to it as a “target of interest”. Well it was too close to
the White House for them not to be concerned or even alarmed. And a lot of people think they got up
there, and it took off, and they didn’t find out who it was. Well if it was a conventional aircraft they could
give you the name of the pilot and I have documentation to prove this with the type of radar we have.
We have what’s called ‘space time, real time’ radar, and you better believe that we can track an aircraft to
where it lands. Relatively new but at that time it was in operation and I know in that area they had that
radar in operation.
M.S. So that would be part of the new intelligence team or new intelligence section that works with
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Measurement and Signature Intelligence? MASINT.
C.S. Of what?
M.S. Measurement and Signature Intelligence its one of the new branches of intelligence gathering, that
would include the kind of radar tracking that you just described.
C.S. It probably would be. Remember I only got bits of this since I was in the Army and not the Air Force,
and they didn’t sit you down to give you all the information so when you got out you could talk about it.
The least you knew the better off you were. They also did psychological profiles on probabilities of people
talking once they got out. I had a 70%. Which meant there was a 70% probability that I would never speak
of some of the things that had happened.
Which is probably why they wanted me to stay in. A 100% probability that I wouldn’t speak while I was in
the military, even though I did there at the end start talking out. But, even then I had to be very careful. In
short, it had to be: “well this is what other people are saying; well, this is some of the stuff I know about,”
but I couldn’t come out and hit up, yes, this is what I’m working with. These are some of the things when
you’re sleeping at night, we’re still awake and doing things like this.
M.S. Can you just very briefly explain your precise role when you were working on those retrieval teams,
being for example the first team to go in that you were playing that role of actually entering into the
vehicle, to then relay back to the other teams whatever other information they needed in order to come in
safely? In other words you were the first one in there.
C.S. We took radiation readings and things of this sort, and we also took steps of trying to identify any
type of biological hazard that might be there, but the real purpose for me being involved point blank was to
act as an interface. Whether you believe this or not, the intent is to communicate with the entity on the
ship, or on the craft.
M.S. And that was always done with crashes? Your skill was not used in some classified project to
communicate with EBEs; it was always done in terms of any EBEs on a crashed disk?
C.S. Well with me, the two things the military did with me, for example, I would always have a guardian
that would always, because I thought I should have a higher security clearance for some of the stuff I was
doing. Oh no, no, they shut you up if you do push for that. Well any time I needed a security clearance, I
had whatever security clearance to do whatever it was they wanted me to do. You were debriefed
afterwards and you sign the non-disclosure agreement, but it’s not supposed to work that way. It’s
supposed to be that they give you that on a one time basis, on a “need to know” and that’s where it stops
short of getting the actual clearance and being fully briefed into the job.
Well one thing they wanted me to do was to go to ‘school’, to go to ‘school’, to go to ‘school’. Well this
would be the ‘school’ that taught many factors about UFOs, I’m certain of that. It was never explained to
me why I had to go. Well I thought hard not to go to that school, and I was very good at not going. The
closest I came was when they sent me to the advanced NCO course when they were thinking of going
ahead and sending me down to Fort Belvoir. At the end of that course, they would have to hit up on it
being an intelligence course and that would create a problem with me going back when I’m supposed to
be nothing more than the administrative specialist there at my unit – personal services for noncommissioned
officers….
Part 2.
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C.S. Well one thing they [military controllers of UFO information] wanted me to do was to go to ‘school’, to
go to ‘school’, to go to ‘school’. Well this would be the ‘school’ that taught many factors about UFOs, I’m
certain of that. It was never explained to me why I had to go. Well I thought hard not to go to that school,
and I was very good at not going.
The closest I came was when they sent me to the advanced NCO course when they were thinking of
going ahead and sending me down to Fort Belvoir. At the end of that course, they would have to hit up on
it being an intelligence course and that would create a problem with me going back when I’m supposed to
be nothing more than the administrative specialist there at my unit – personal services for noncommissioned
officers….
M.S. With that ‘school’, what information were you aware of in terms of what was taught there, where it
was located and the sort of people they sent there?
C.S. I was not aware of where it was located, what was taught. I got to meet some people who went there
and to me they were scary. It was like, you know, even enlisted people were above reproach. I mean, it
was like “your station in life is less than mine because I know secrets that no one else knows.” It’s hard to
explain but there’s something sinister about the people when they came back from the school.
M.S. That ‘scariness’ or ‘sinister’ quality that they had, was that in any way related to their intelligence?
Was there some kind of intelligence enhancement that went with that training, or was it purely because of
their demeanor that they believed they were a cut above the rest of the services?
C.S. I would say it was the demeanor. For example, there was one person I met while I was there at
Keesler [Air Force base] who felt for sure that they obviously were going to kill me because I was talking. I
said I’m very careful about what I say, and the documentation I always make sure it’s released officially
through the U.S. government. Anyhow, what they did, this guy essentially wanted to be there in
Mississippi, he wanted to be there until retirement, and this was an Air Force pilot. But he was working
over at the atomic medicine research facility. I think that’s what they called it, there at Keesler Air Force
base.
And they initially weren’t not going to send him there, but because of the incident he was involved in
connection with Bentwaters [1980 “UFO incident in the United Kingdom] and they definitely did not want
him to be out and about talking to people about his experience. That’s one the media never did pick up
on. Well, anyhow, now he says: “if you want to ensure my silence, what you have to do is send me to
Mississippi.” And actually he used a form of blackmail there but it worked. I don’t know why it worked, but
in a sense it worked. They sent him there on the condition that he never talk of his situation.
But a mutual friend of ours who knew I was heavily involved in UFOs when he found out who I was and
what I was doing at that time, he says you know you got to keep away from him because if they decide
they are going to take him out, they aren’t picky, and if you’re there too you’ll be taken out too. You’d have
two unsolved murders as opposed to one. But I never felt threatened, I never felt
like there was going to be any repercussions, the only repercussions I had was
when I was assigned here [Roswell] and they were hitting up on Paul Bennewitz
[photo on right] and I got, how can I put this, I got very verbal about what they
were doing to Paul.
M.S. What was it that you were aware of that they were doing to Paul that
concerned you?
C.S. Paul was on to something, and he’s dead now. The person who they identified as ‘Falcon’ was
involved with that.
M.S. Was that Richard Doty?
C.S. Richard Doty, and, Richard Doty I’m sorry is acting under orders. Paul had film footage, he had
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pictures, he had audio recordings of something ‘not found in nature’ is the best way to put it. And when he
had the meeting with the Air Force personnel; well, [they said:] “yes, there’s something there but you know
we no longer investigate UFOs so we aren’t really interested.” Well they were interested enough to get
copies of everything that he had, but then it took a sinister side. The sinister side was to go ahead and
drive this person totally insane. And that ultimately led to his untimely death.
M.S. Yes it’s a sad experience…
C.S. He was going to write a book. I have two or three of the chapters he was working on and I talked to
him, and I tried to talk him out of it. But he was very impressed with Richard Doty, Special Agent Doty,
and he trusted Doty emphatically. So much so that he trusted Doty with his life. And that could have been
the ultimate big mistake. I haven’t heard it but I understand Doty went on a radio talk show and
acknowledged that he was doing that under orders, and I firmly believe he was doing that under orders.
Doty actually has been involved in several UFO incidents that are in the UFO field some of them are
actually, I’m not going to call them a hoax, because there’s a difference between a hoax and officially
sanctioned disinformation.
M.S. Can you describe any personal experiences you’ve had with extraterrestrials, and any different types
of extraterrestrials that you have personal experience of?
C.S. Forgive me on this, but Paola [Harris – pictured on
left with Sgt. Stone] had some of that material so let her
share that with you. I know it sounds crazy, but if you
ever come here [to Roswell] I made six hours of tapes
talking about my experiences. But when I start talking,
talking generalities I can do, but when I start talking you
are actually having flashbacks, you are actually reliving
it. I know that sounds crazy, you had to be there to
understand it, but I mean you get all emotional and I
prefer not to get that way.
M.S. Ok, we’ll leave that for another time then.…
C.S. You send me your address I’ll send you copies of those three tapes.
M.S. I’ll be very appreciative and whatever cost you go to in making those tapes I am more than happy to
reimburse you.
C.S. I give my stuff freely. Right now we have two CD’s I put out, I’m selling those but I’ll send you even a
copy of those. One CD has over 10,000 pages of UFO/government documentation. I’m working on
another CD right now that has government records dealing with advanced propulsion systems. A lot of
people aren’t even aware of the fact that we are working on Warp Drive, speculating about manipulating
wormholes in space, and also anti-matter drive. They think this is all stuff of science fiction, I have
government documents where I can prove what I just told you is not science fiction but science fact and
we’re working on it.
M.S. Thank you, I would appreciate all of that information. A question about 2001 National Press Club
interview you were on … according to an [earlier] interview you were actually encouraged to go to that
Press Club [Conference] by the covert authorities monitoring you, so why did they encourage you to go to
that Press Conference? What does that signify?
C.S. The fact behind it is that they didn’t feel overly threatened by me going; actually initially I wasn’t going
to go. I don’t know if Paola [Harris] told you that but initially I was not going to go. There were several
other times where I had been invited, when they had it in the years prior, and even my supervisor was
approached and told that I was not to have leave at that time. But things worked out, it’s like things falling
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into place to where I got to go and there was no effort to try to prevent me from going.
So a lot of the people felt that they were sanctioning me going there.
When it comes to the UFO field, the U.S., government doesn’t care about what you say; they care a whole
lot about what you can prove. For example, if you were to come here and ask me to go to Corona with
you to the crash site, I won’t go. The last time I was out there was in 1987 and a lot of people think that
threats made there at that time, they no longer apply. Yes, they do. We went out there to gather pieces
from a cave, we found the cave, we hit up on the pieces. I can’t tell you where that cave is, I couldn’t
probably even find it, but if I should happen upon it, I’ve already talked about some of the things that could
be in that cave so therefore if it was there it would give strong circumstantial evidence that I was there
before.
And the possibility of certain things that we may have overlooked, which I doubt, might still be there and
other people finding things. If you ever saw the pieces of what really crashed here, there’d be no doubt in
your mind that the material, you don’t have to touch it. Just seeing it, you would know it’s something you
never saw before. Back then you’d have absolutely have known that it was not of this world. When I had
Ralph Pike here, he got to see bits ‘n pieces because I had in a cigar box and I was waiting for a person
to come and pick it up. And of course, I had to be armed at that time and I told him don’t ask questions,
don’t even pick it up, and I was sorry that he saw it. But he knew, without even touching it, he knew.
M.S. Can you maybe speculate a little about your role in a possible acclimation program? I mean you
have a lot of information, you have a lot of documents, and you’re able to give this out to the general
public. Is this just a result of you being aware of the boundaries that you should not cross in order to
preserve your own safety and security, or is it because there is an acclimation program and you may
actually be a part of this?
C.S. Well, I’m hoping that I’m doing something worthwhile by trying to get information out there. In other
words, in having people read the documentation and think on their own, and I cannot see a person
reading the documentation and not coming away saying, you know there’s something to the UFO
phenomenon that we still don’t have answers for; and if there’s an intelligence behind it, that intelligence
didn’t originate on this Earth. And that right there is actually my goal, my goal is to get people to go ahead,
think on their own, read the documentation, and come to their own conclusions.
And if they read the documentation with an open mind there’s no way, no way that a person can come
away and say there’s nothing to UFOs. There’s no way they can come and say there’s no intelligence
behind the phenomenon. There’s no way they can come away and say, gee, this is just some of our new
inventions, and this is some of our new technology. No, its not. That technology in 1947 is the same
technology that’s being observed with UFOs today. And we didn’t have that technology in 1947; we
cannot replicate some of the things that UFOs do even to this day.
Most people, if you had a UFO flying high in the sky, most people would
ignore [it]. Today, in order for a UFO to be reported, a person has to see
a UFO up close; and it has to be an incident of high strangeness, or it’s
simply an incident that’s totally ignored.
The CIA when they released their report they said they did it in 1997.
Actually it was in 1995 when they said the Air Force even lied to cover
up some of our Top Secret aircraft, like the U2 and the SR-71 [image on
left]. Well the whole story in a nutshell is that I defy the Central
Intelligence community or the Air Force to produce 10 documents
showing where a UFO was in reality a U2 or SR-71.
I’m telling you right now they can’t do that, therefore that particular part of the article is an outright lie. The
Continental Air Intelligence Command, later to be the United States Air Force Intelligence Command, they
would have had a record, maybe Top Secret, because what you see in Blue Book is not all the records as
they are since you have documentation that was classified at a Top Secret level. Blue Book was only
classified for Secret, anything Top Secret and above; meaning Top Secret and Sensitive Compartmented
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Information could not be part of Blue Book.
Another good example, everybody thinks that little report they have in there [Project BlueBook], the
Project Twinkle final report, they think that’s the report on the Green fireball phenomena. It is not, that
report is yet to surface. That’s why you have that little statement there that says back in the 1950’s [Blue
Book] was looking at the Green Fireball phenomenon. The final report has never been made public to the
US government. They’re not referring to that report in there (Project BlueBook) that I think had a
confidential rating, they’re referring to a Top Secret report. Now how do I know there was a Top Secret
report? Simply put, the FBI files make reference to the meetings and the staff studies that were being
done on the Green Fireball phenomenon, some of those papers are at a Top Secret level.
There’s no mention of those documents in the Blue Book files. As a matter of fact, the only thing you have
short of case studies are case reports dealing with the Green Fireball phenomenon is that final report, but
that is not the final report having the recommendations and conclusions. That report makes it clear that
they couldn’t come up with any answers. It also makes it clear, that these were, at the time you couldn’t
say interplanetary, therefore they said these objects were of a category of their own outside of the other
reported UFOs, and that these definitely were man made objects.
Now ‘man made’ meaning they were artificial, we now know that no power on the face of this planet made
them, so who did make them? We also know that we should have found debris where they would have
impacted with the Earth if they were meteors or man made objects. However, that never happened, Dr
Lincoln La Paz was one of the people who observed a green fireball, and said this is some type of
mechanical devise and of course he said it was man made. Once again his credentials prevent him to say
any possibility of them being interplanetary, but he stopped short of saying they were interplanetary. He
was very good at finding impact sites of meteors, not one impact site of the green fireballs was ever
located….
M.S. I want to ask, in an earlier interview that has been done you described an agent who was assigned
to observe you who calls you ‘Colonel’, why is that?
C.S. Well, I didn’t know what to call him, he acted like an army Colonel so I called him Colonel.
M.S. I see so there was no incident where you were called ‘the Colonel’.
C.S. No, the only time I was called an officer was a couple of occasions where I had to go undercover and
posed as an Air Force Lieutenant.
M.S. There is an incident where Kevin Randle [pictured right] says that you pointed
to a sticker on your car that was supposedly a blue sticker used by officers, and
Kevin Randle said something about that was only for officers rather than NCOs, and
he used that as a means to try to debunk your case. Do you recall that incident with
Kevin Randle?
C.S. No, I didn’t point that out to him at all; I didn’t want it to be pointed out to him.
And he’s a hundred percent wrong. Your sticker is blue, it used to be that red was for
NCOs, well now your sticker is blue, but for the year, for the ending year that time,
and I assume its still the same way, I had an officer’s sticker. It was Ralph [Pike] that pointed it to him and
Ralph’s Dad was in the Air Force, he was retired Air Force. Ralph knew and the reason he was impressed
about it, I tried not to call attention to it, but yes I had to have that sticker for that period of time.
M.S. And that was only because there was a change over from red and blue that you had that sticker?
C.S. No, I had to go some place where only officers were supposed to go. One thing it was an officer’s
sticker. For the ending year that would have been red, your sticker is blue, for the ending year if you’re a
Non-Comm it’s red, now I think they have multicolors for all different things … There’s a caste system in
the military, so you had blue for officers, red for Non-Comm’s, orange for junior enlisted, and green for
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civilians. Now it used to be that the whole sticker was that way, but then they changed it to where you get
a blue sticker now that says Department of Defense and all that good stuff, you have a sticker underneath
that says like Cannon Air Force base. Well that color also mandates the status of that person whether
they are civilian, enlisted or officer. Well mine was 100% blue.
He’s [Randle] making reference to the DOD sticker that has to be there on the car, and not the Air base or
installation from which it came which should have been red. Not the end of the year or the year it should
have expired which should have been red, but mine was blue. It was a friend of mine, Ralph Pike that
pointed out to him. The reason Ralph pointed it out to him was that Ralph didn’t even notice it. So we went
to the gate at Holloman Air Force base and as soon as they see it and recognize it as an officer’s they had
to salute. So I was being saluted, and he said: “what kind of sticker do you have on your car?” [I said:]
“The guy’s probably just mistaken me for someone who works here, so we got out.” He said, “you’ve got
an officer’s sticker on your car.” So I just tried to play it off.
M.S. That officer’s sticker on your car that was purely so you could have access to certain parts of the
base where only officers could go, and this was during your retirement?
C.S. This was right at the end of my retirement. It was the first year of retirement that that was there.
M.S. So, you still had access to certain areas in that first year of your retirement on a military base where
only officers could go.
C.S. Yes
M.S. Was that related to you doing some follow up work?
C.S. Yes it was. There were two bases involved, well actually three, but two where I needed to get
locations where upon entering there would be that recognition of officer’s status, and when I got there,
there would be recognition as a civilian consultant.
M.S. So the implication there is that even though you were officially retired in 1990 that you still were
playing a role using the skills that you had acquired primarily as an interface [with extraterrestrials] for the
military. They would just call you when they had a need?
C.S. No, I think it was more like tracking me, “what am I doing now a days and all that good stuff”. They
knew I was working on the first book that I was actually going to put out while I was in the military. It was
called, “UFOs let the Evidence Speak for Itself”. Actually there are words in there that people think are
misspelt, if they knew the meaning of the word they’d know it’s not misspelt. And of course I provided
three times for a classification of security review, and each time the manuscript got lost. So I went ahead
and self-published it.
That book came out and there were some concerns about some of the stuff that I was saying in there, and
some of the documents that was in there, and what I might still have. So there was always that, well you
know we still have an interest in this case here, and oh by the way you were involved in this case here,
and you’d go actually over a couple of cups of coffees a debriefing. Only they wouldn’t try to set it up like a
debriefing. Stuff like you and the other guy talking, he was taking notes and you could be rest assured that
the conversation was being recorded.
M.S. In terms of yourself and your retirement, in what ways have you been monitored? Are you aware of
any kind of special mechanism to monitor someone like you that is playing a role in releasing a lot of
information?
C.S. Oh, there was a couple of times when the media was here that strange things happened. There was
one person here recording … she was here one morning and I can’t remember what it was she was
recording, but while she was here as a matter of fact I got a call and was told be very careful what I say,
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be very careful with what I show. I think that had to do with the fact that one of the news articles that went
out when I was here I had a big black book on the table, and I had a roll of super 8 mm film.
Of course they took pictures of it, one roll which was loose laying by itself. Nobody even noticed that, and
that one I would say is interesting. I won’t go into detail into what was on it, but that was more interesting
than the other. But that got the message out when the picture appeared in the newspaper that I had those
three items, that no effort was made until I got careless talking to another UFO researcher [by phone] and
he said do you have the you-know-what still there, and finally he mentioned it? Well the you-know-what
was film footage of the “Holloman Landing”, so I’m going to say it this time, “they got that back”. And that
was within minutes after the phone call.
M.S. With that Holloman landing what year did that occur and what did it show?
C.S. I firmly believe that that happened in 1965, I firmly believe that was when the incident occurred. The
lead on the film had April 25, 1965 on it, as part of the info as to when the film was taken and everything,
and also referred to SSP which was Special Studies Project. It made no reference to Blue Book. That
Special Studies Project, I can’t remember anything else that was on the lead, it was on the very first part
of the tape when you put it on the spool. It showed a roughly circular craft coming in for a landing at
Holloman Air Force base, I believe there were three people that got out.
One person got in a sedan, a Ford Galaxy, a 1965 Ford Galaxy with several officers and drove off. It
looked like some kind of communication had taken place before they got into the vehicle and drove off.
There were several other vehicles there, probably about 20 people, that was involved. Not all of them in
military uniform at the landing.
Also, it was quite clear that they knew the landing was going
to occur. It [the film] initially shows how they are setting up
the field, setting up the cameras, getting ready, it makes
reference to a test launch of a missile that was going to be
tested. I don’t believe it was a missile that was going to be
tested; they start showing this little speck of light off there in
the distance.
It gets closer and closer until finally you can see definition of
it. Landing gear comes down, it comes down directly down
to ground, a door underneath the carriage opens up, drops
down and the three entities walk out.
One goes to the left, stands to the left side of the craft, one goes to the right, the entity that for lack of a
better term is the leader comes out, and carries on a conversation with the officer. Well I can tell you that
it was a full bird Colonel that was there.
M.S. What did the extraterrestrial look like?
C.S. Roughly five foot, actually five foot four, and I had some people tell me it looked like it had Indian
features. To me the features were more oriental. The pupils of the eyes were a little different than our
pupil, and I’d say even more so like cat’s eyes. They had olive skin, the suit that it had on was a tight
fitting jump suit complete all the way over the head with just the face appearing. They had a darker
complexion, it’s hard to describe the complexion, but not white not gray. The nose seemed a little out of
place, larger than what you’d expect…
M.S. In some interview, I believe it was with Paola [Harris], you mentioned that you knew of, or the
government was aware of 57 ET races, where did you get that information from?
C.S. That information was from a little publication that they had that the person I called the Colonel always
carried [with] him. … It was a little booklet that he carried, actually a little thick booklet, a loose leaf
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notebook type situation. But the intent of cataloguing the different species was so that they could render
the best first aid they could in identifying which species they had at any given location.
M.S. Did you ever take a look at this little booklet or was it something he told you about?
C.S. No, no, I got to see and got to look at it. He was pretty good with me. As a matter of fact even when I
got out, from time to time I’d still have contact with him.
M.S. With that little booklet, how did it describe the races was it a kind of genotype in terms of physical
characteristic or was it from star system of origin?
C.S. The way they would break it down is like they would have various types. For example like when it
came to the Grays they had the 3 foot, 3½ foot category, they would go ahead and write type, 1 type 2,
type 3. They moved on to the ones that had human characteristics, then they would go ahead and identify
by a code, the entity there. Like, they would have like “zebra-harry dosh”. So this right here would be ones
that are like 3, 3½ feet tall, but they were covered with hair.
Another one would be like “able-[Yeti] what’s the word? It’s a word we use all the time like ‘abominable
snow man’ [Yeti]. This would be the tall hairy creature. They would go ahead and have like Charlie 1,
Charlie 2, all the way to I think to Charlie 5. And humanoid, and they would go ahead and have “Earth
based 1”, ‘Earth based 2’, ‘Earth based 3’. Now this right here, that code meant something to the Colonel.
See to you and I it wouldn’t mean anything. It would give us a description. It would also either include a
drawing or a photograph. So it wasn’t just one or two pages on each entity you had ten, fifteen pages …
[for a booklet of about 1000 pages].
M.S. Can you explain how operational security was maintained for the retrieval projects you worked on?
C.S. So, we call it something like Operation or Project Horsefly akin to Project Bluefly. Well you didn’t do
that. Bluefly was already there. Bluefly could handle it all. Now, you have an extraterrestrial spacecraft,
then fine, you have a whole new avenue where you send the debris and everything, versus the avenue of
the aftermath of a crash of an aircraft. But up to that point it’s all the same, and that’s where people get
off. They don’t stop to think you don’t reinvent the wheel. You have 35 or so, up to 70 if you have both
teams there. Military people who are doing a normal function, outside of the fact now for the first time they
realize they are face to face with something not of this world. But they are never going to be able to talk
about it.
That, up to that time, the policy is already there in place for things like nuclear, biological, chemical
accidents, crash of aircraft.
You also have what we call “officially sanctioned deception programs” should any information leak out to
try to nullify or minimize any damage by information leaking out. “Hey that wasn’t a pipe craft that
crashed”, that was a thirty foot saucer. So you have that already in place, you have your PR people there,
public affairs that are ready to go out and try to nullify if any information got out to the contrary – if you
check. Well a good example is what happened here at Roswell.
It was the Air Force themselves that released the fact that it was a flying disk that was recovered, that was
an accident. It wasn’t an accident when they went ahead and exposed a Top Secret program to keep
people from asking questions about something that was more important, i.e., the recovery of a crashed
disk. But, they came out and said we have a captured disk. And the next day they came out and said,
“nope nothing more than a weather balloon”. And of course there was all this debris that was mentioned.
Well, how do you go ahead and nullify that? Well, I believe it was the Air Force that comes out with a story
of the multiple balloon and rolling targets they were testing at Holloman Air Force base. Well, what they
were talking about was Project Mogul. Project Mogul at the time was a Top Secret project. Yet there it
was in black and white for the whole world to see. So what they did was they exposed Top Secret Project
Mogul to cover for whatever it was they recovered here [at Roswell].
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Those programs are already put into place. There’s no detour from the procedure, until one, you’ve got a
UFO; two, that book that has been referred to (if you ever hear them mention ‘the bible’, that’s what they
are talking about) that tells you the details you need to take. And your time is limited, because rest
assured a rescue party is on its way to recover any of their dead or any of their injured, or those that are
still alive. The one thing I don’t believe in is pickled bodies.
MS: Did you ever, when your were doing any retrievals, actually witness some of the retrieval teams of
the ETs themselves coming to get their own people? Was this something you ever witnessed?
C.S. I was close but no cigar… Actually I had to be put close and be on standby and that right there was a
little situation that took place at Lamboy Woods there in Germany.
M.S. My last question is about the system set up to oversee all these [UFO related] projects. Do you have
any information about the so called MJ-12 committee or PI-40? Any information about who’s actually in
charge of the projects and how these decisions are made?
C.S. No, I don’t. During all my time in there I never heard MJ-12, I never heard Majestic. But that doesn’t
mean [they aren’t real], that’s why I keep an open mind. I’m not ready to accept the MJ-12 documents
right now, but I do keep an open mind on it. I believe Ryan Wood, I’ve met him personally; I don’t believe
that he would be trying to perpetrate a hoax or something like that. I honestly don’t believe he is of that
caliber. He honestly believes in those documents. That’s my honest opinion of Ryan. But by me not
seeing them and not being exposed to them, that doesn’t mean that they weren’t there. It’s like Moon Dust
and Bluefly, working in Moon Dust and Bluefly I still didn’t know what the names were. It was quite by
accident that I found out, that caused me to start asking.
M.S. That was the series of questions I had down prior to the interview, so I just want to leave it open now
for you. If there’s anything you want to say that lies ahead [for you]? Anything you have planned, activities
to continue to release information or some other activity you’re involved in with regard to what you’ve
experienced?
C.S. Well, as for me, I’m going to continue to push to try to get the documentation that I know is there; that
I know was not destroyed; that proves conclusively we are not alone in the universe; and that we know it.
The documentation that will prove that UFOs are a reality, that people have seen them. The
documentation that will prove once and for all that they are interplanetary. I’m also going to continue to
release on CD, documents as I said on UFOs and also to the best of my abilities on various other such
stuff such as missile defense, space debris, advanced concepts and advanced technology, because I
believe a lot of people aren’t aware of where we are trying to go and I am quite certain that when it comes
to the advanced propulsion systems as it applies to space travel we have made quantum leaps. You don’t
go from Neanderthal man, to a certified CPA in New York. There has to be some time of evolution that
takes place there, and what I’m seeing is that you have a selfless camel and then all of a sudden you
have interstellar space craft.
You have the Department of Defense R&D that comes out with some very interesting technology; then
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they give it to private enterprise and say, “this is what we’ve come up with, see what you can do with it
now.” So it looks like it came from public sectors, but in reality it came from military sectors. But that’s
where the tie in kind of breaks off, the Department of Defense R&D is constantly putting new technology
into the hands of universities and private enterprise.
That technology is then being assessed as our own technology and even further improved because they
have more minds better involved in doing the R& D on that particular technology. But the one thing that’s
missing is the evolution of that technology, say from microchip to becoming a fully fledged computer. In
short, some of our technology, while we may have improved it, it still is not as good as they have, and we
got the idea from them and we got a boost from them.
I don’t want to take anything away from the intelligence of man, we would eventually get there all on our
own, but I think we are being pushed ahead by some of the technology we are coming into contact with.
We are not going to be able to back engineer an entire craft but rest assured we can back engineer
crudely some bits and pieces. After all, if your technology is at the state of what we have today, and you
come into possession of technology that may be one to two billion years … ahead of us, I suggest we
have no idea of what the state of the art technology is in the year 2055 let alone one to two billion years
down the road…
M.S. Thank you for your time it’s really been very helpful, you’ve given me much information and a lot to
think about. I really
Return to Michael Salla
Return to The Saga of Flying Objects
Return to Clifford Stone - Alien Races And
Descriptions
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The Clifford Stone Story
I’m fifty years old. Out of that fifty years, for the better part of forty-six of those years,
I’ve been involved with UFOs -- although at the beginning, I didn’t know that that’s what
I was involved in. As I went through my childhood into my teen years, I had strange
events that took place. Eventually I got into the military, and I found out that even then
they seemed to follow me.
In order to try to get the answers to some of the events in my life, I collected a large
volume of information about the UFO phenomena. I have a strange story to tell. The
story is unlike a lot of what you hear, but it’s my story and I’m going to be truthful about
it with you. I can’t say who’s right and who’s wrong in the field. I’d like to see
everybody that’s involved in UFOs start to have one vision, and that one vision
ultimately giving the truth out to the American public. That would mean that every UFO
researcher would have to put their differences aside, not have their own agendas, their
own concept of what the truth is; but to seek out the truth that can be documented, that
has the strong evidence there.
Over the course of the years of the UFO investigation as it was officially performed by
the United States government, it was stipulated that there was only one agency involved
in those investigations. That means US Air Force. Actually, in the beginning, it was the
Army Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC) that handled UFO investigations. We officially
got started on an official program as a result of Kenneth Arnold’s sighting on June 24,
1947. The CIC was involved in most investigations and would remain so until the Air
Force became a separate entity in 1947 as a result of the National Security Act, which
came into play on September 17 of that year.
On September 23, the Army Air Corps became the United States Air Force. Most people
who were in CIC immediately took over the investigation of UFOs. With the large
number of UFO reports coming into the US airports, it was seen that there was a
necessity to have a clearing house to receive UFO reports and give some contention that
they were getting official notice. The Air Force then set up what was called Project Sign.
Project Sign came into existence on January 22, 1948. The press referred to it as Project
(Seltzer?) In February 1949, a report was released on Project Sign stipulating that all
UFOs could be explained away by hoaxes, illusions, or misidentifications of known
objects or aircrafts in other unusual conditions. The Air Force released this report
knowing fully well that it was incorrect.
This did not stop the influx of reports coming in to the US Air Force, dealing with UFOs.
Getting all these reports, they were finally forced to acknowledge that Project Sign did
not die in February 1949, but that it continued. The name had been changed by virtue of
Project Sign being compromised. They named it Project Grudge. It would remain Project
Grudge until 1952, at which time it was identified as Project Blue Book. It would
continue as Project Blue Book until its demise in December 1969, at which time they
stated we were no longer investigating UFOs. However, this was not to be the end.
What was unknown to the American public was that, behind the scenes, there was a much
more broad investigation of UFOs, dealing with more reliable sightings: the military
sightings, the sightings being reported by astronomers and scientists. These had a code
name too. I don’t know what it was from all the way back during the time that we had
investigations of UFOs, beginning with the Foo Fighters in the second World War, when
we definitely took an interest; but that’s when we officially got involved in the so-called
UFO phenomena.
The Foo Fighters that were being seen by our pilots and the Axis powers alike, were
something real, something that showed intelligent control, that took evasive action. There
was a great desire to find out what these were, and so the United States Army, under the
auspices of General MacArthur, created what was known as the United States Army
Interplanetary Phenomena Research Unit. In 1943, MacArthur was able to ascertain from
his CIC people that definitely, there were interplanetary craft visiting our planet and
observing that world event at the time that we called the Second World War. If they
proved to be hostile, we would have a great dilemma.
This fact that I have just told you has never been made public to the American people.
They know of the Interplanetary Phenomena Research Unit, but they don’t know actually
when it began. We know also, from the release of documents from the FBI, that Blue
Book was never in charge of anything. Very quietly, behind the scenes, from the
beginning, from 1947 to January of 1953, the Office of Special Relations (OSI), those
elite people who came over from the Army CIC who were doing the initial investigations,
were in fact the ones who were monitoring the UFO situation at Wright Patterson Air
Force Base. Blue Book would get watered-down reports, particularly of the really good
reports that came in.
In January 1953, a unique event took place. The United States Air Force created a very
elite unit. This unit would be known as the 4602nd Air Intelligence Service Squad
(AISS). General Burgess suggested to Captain (Phelps?) that since they had a very unique
unit that was specifically designed to go out and do field investigations, that if this unit
was permitted to do UFO investigations, we would finally hit some pay dirt.
Ruppelt, in his 1956 book entitled, The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, alludes
that he was the one who suggested to Burgess that this come about. The Blue Book files
dealing with the AISS files clearly show that it was Burgess who made this overture to
Ruppelt. The 4602nd had a wartime mission, which was the field exploitation of downed
enemy aircraft and personnel, and the exploitation of enemy documents. It had no
peacetime mission.
Now, at its conception, it did have a peacetime mission, which was to do the field
investigations of unidentified flying objects, to interact with those investigations of
military personnel, of highly trained observers such as astronomers, personnel who were
considered highly trained observers, who knew what they were talking about as far as
giving accurate data in the observations they make. They also created a new program,
unknown to Project Blue Book.
Every UFO report going in to the Air Material Command, later to be called the Air
Tactical Intelligence Center, first went through a clearing house. Operation Blue Fly was
now in full operation. The intent of Operation Blue Fly was the immediate field
exploitation and recovery of any enemy or presumed enemy craft that went down in the
continental United States or friendly territories overseas, as well as the full exploitation
and recovery of advanced technology. This included the recovery and field exploitation
of those items which we called unidentified flying objects.
So it would continue well after the end of Project Blue Book. Blue Book ended, as I said
before, in 1969. In 1987, the Air Force was to acknowledge that Operation Blue Fly had
in fact had its name changed. Project Moondust, which was the overall field exploitation,
also had its name changed.
When we finally got Congress to ask about these two specific projects, I had them under
appeal, which means by law the classified documentation had to run the gauntlet of the
appeal action. This meant that they were not to be destroyed or done away with. But as
soon as Congress asked the hard questions about these files as they pertain to UFOs, the
Air Force stated that all their documentation on these particular operations, Operation
Blue Fly and Project Moondust, had been destroyed.
The intent of destroying these documents, and I charge the Air Force with this now, and
the small nucleus within the intelligence community. I charge them with destroying those
documents to keep the people who were investigating what happened here at Roswell
from becoming public. Because within those documents you would learn of US Air Force
Detachment 35. You would learn that US Air Force Detachment 35 corrected date,
pictures, reports, photographs, physical evidence. That in 1947 that information was
gathered. Sometime between 1947 and 1952, those files were transferred to Detachment
35. In short, Roswell was the scene of at least two, possibly more, UFO crashes. Those
crashes were not of Project Mogul weather balloons. The Air Force had in its possession
in 1995, when (Schiff?) himself was asking for the information on what happened here,
and they were lying to us through the General Accounting Service, that they didn’t have
any documents. They had a complete file folder. We have the cover of the listing of those
projects that Detachment 35 was involved in. Roswell was one of them. This clearly
indicates that they had the file. I personally have seen some of that information. What
happened in July 1947 here in Roswell was in fact the crash of two or more unidentified
flying objects which later would turn out to be unidentified. We positively confirmed that
they were interplanetary craft from some other place within our galaxy. They did not
originate in our solar system. There were also bodies. We recovered the debris, we
recovered whole craft. They have reverence for their dead, I can tell you that we did not
maintain for too awful long, possession of the bodies. In one instance, there were five
entities. Three were dead, one was seriously injured and died later as a result of its
injuries. One wasn’t all that bad as far as its injuries went. I cannot confirm whether it
was returned alive or dead. I do know that we had a problem because medication as we
understand it doesn’t work for them. Food that we eat, that may be healthy for us, was
poisonous for them. So synthetics had to be applied, and how that went about I don’t
know, because I wasn’t in the position to have any knowledge of that. What I’m saying
are things that I know for a fact to be true simply because I lived with them and I worked
with them. But I’m getting ahead of myself.
Glen Dennis and Paola Harris with Cliff
Prior to the age of four, I lived a normal life like any other kid. The events that led up to
even me getting in the military started around that time. At the age of four, I had a
situation where it’s hard to recall and a lot of what I’m about to say is going to be hard to
recall. I’ve never made notes, never kept notes. The intent was to take everything to the
grave with me. Upon completion of all the recording I’ll explain why I’m talking now.
You have to have a tragedy in your life before you start talking about this stuff, and that’s
why I started to talk. But I want to get to that at the end.
Concerning the situation that happened at the age of four…it was Christmas, and during
Christmas I was looking forward to the arrival of Santa Claus. I believed in Santa Claus
at that time, and it was very hard to sleep. I remember going to bed, but then getting up,
waiting for Santa Claus. I stayed near the fireplace because I wanted to see how he was
going to get in. There was a tap at the door and my mom and dad told me that that was
Santa Claus. I immediately went up to my room and tried to act like I was asleep. I
remember someone dressed in a Santa Claus suit coming up to look at me and to try to
see if I was asleep. I remember opening one eye to see if that person was still there. And I
thought, I’m not going to get anything this year because Santa Claus knows I’m awake. I
stayed there in bed, dying to get up and see what was left under the tree for me.
About an hour passed, nobody came for me, and I knew that my mom and dad were
going to go out to some Christmas party, so I lay there. One of my half-sisters was to take
care of me, and I’ve always identified the woman who came up to my bed about an hour
after my family was gone and it was quiet, as being my half-sister, although she had no
recollection of it. The person came up and instead of saying, “Let’s go see what’s under
the tree for you,” asked a very strange question: “Would you like to see the
Boogeyman?”
Well, I didn’t believe in a Boogeyman, but that sounded like something that would be
nice and interesting to see. Now we lived on Stanton Avenue at the time, in the corner
house. The steel mill was there, and it was very active at that time. They had three shifts,
a day shift, prime shift, and the graveyard shift. I know that it was after eleven o’clock
when this event took place, but this lady took me to the back porch, and we stood there.
Finally, I heard a rumble, very much like a tractor with a grader on the front. Looking
out, I saw that it was a tractor, and it was just a man driving it down the street. This was
very unusual because we didn’t have this happen there, particularly after eleven o’clock
at night. As the vehicle got closer, I noticed the driver of the tractor and I noticed that his
eyes weren’t like ours, but they were glowing red. He seemed to have a business suit on,
with the vest and the hat with the brim all the way around it, but it was one solid color, a
darkish brown. It was as if someone had picked up a big clump of dirt and had carved
away at making this person.
I stood back, a little frightened. As the tractor passed by, the person turned and looked
directly at us, and all I could see at that time was the glowing red lights. Now I was told,
“Now you need to go to bed.” I went to bed and I didn’t get up for the rest of the night. I
did go to sleep wondering about what I saw. The next morning it was far removed from
my mind, simply because what had taken place there was the night before. It may have
had no meaning at all, and it was now Christmas Day, and I got a lot of nice things that
day.
But I find myself wondering back to that. Within a matter of two or three weeks later, I
was talking about that event to my cousins, Larry and (Herbie?) Stevens, telling them
about it. A friend of mine by the name of Delbert Hudson was there. We were talking
about it, and they said it just had to be a dream. Then we started to hear a rumble like a
freight train, coming from the sky, and we looked up. There were three very large
objects, about the size of a grapefruit held at arm’s length, dancing in the sky. They were
kind of yellowish in color. It was not beaming down a beam of light or anything like that,
they just shone. Once again, they were very very large, but they were just dancing
around, floating around one another. They would sometimes come down closer and then
go back up. We watched that until our mothers called us in. My mom saw it. Herbie and
Larry’s mom also saw it, but we didn’t pay too much attention to it at that time. We really
weren’t into UFOs.
After that, we moved to a place on Rose Avenue. It was a small cottage. At this time, I
had had quite a few experiences with things that I had identified as children, that no one
else could see. I thought it was quite normal for people to have this. I also found that it
made me a laughing stock, but I could not bring myself to say that I didn’t see these
people, that it wasn’t a real event. People were trying to tell me that it was just an
overactive imagination.
Once we moved into the house on Rose/ Avenue, me and some of my friends were out in
my back yard playing cowboys and Indians. All of a sudden, we heard some very strange
sounds like music being played. Behind our house was an alley, then another row of
houses, then a hill. On top of the hill was a rock that was painted white. We called it
White Rock. It was roughly 200-250 feet high. From my vantage point, we looked up on
the hill and there we saw what I thought was five or six people running around in white
coveralls. Now there’s no way I can know this for a fact, but I had the impression that
they had white baseball caps on. They did have some kind of white cover on their heads,
that was easily ascertainable. We looked up there in amazement and thought, well, maybe
it’s just some kids up there, but what are they doing all dressed the same?
We played for a while, still looking from time to time up on the hill. Then all of a sudden,
maybe five or ten minutes after we watched these four or five figures up there, they were
standing all in a line, two or three on one side and two or three on the other side. In the
middle, about 2-3 times taller than these that were in the white coveralls, was a metallic
individual. It was glistening in the sun, it was a bright sunlit day. Once again, the music
started to play, and I’m not ashamed to admit it, as a kid of six or seven years old at the
time, I was afraid. I called to my friends and told them to run and hide. I ran and hid. I
ran into the house and hid behind the stove. And there I felt something like bony fingers
just running on the top of my head. I had the impression that this was showing me that I
couldn’t run and hide from this. I could run, I could hide, but they’d always know where I
was at.
I told my mom and dad about this. Later on that night, I had these dark figures, shadows
was the best way to put it, that came into my room. Being frightened, I went and asked
my dad if I could sleep there with him. So I slept that night there. But here again, the dark
shadows followed me there.
The next night after this event occurred, up on top of the hill there was a very bright
yellowish light shining down from this very point where we saw those entities. My aunt,
my mom, my sister and myself watched these for several hours from the bathroom
window. From that window, you could see directly up on top of the hill. We went to bed
with the light show still ongoing, got up the next morning and nothing was there.
Everything went normal after that within my life except for the visitations of what I
identified as children who came and even helped me with my homework for roughly a
year.
By this time, we had moved to another location. We moved to 1906 North (Moreland?)
Avenue. There, everything seemed to be pretty good for about a year. I started second
grade there. One night, while I was asleep, my aunt fell. She was upstairs. She was in her
room getting ready for bed. She lay up there, the doctor came upstairs and saw her. She
stayed there for about a day, then the doctor decided her condition was worsening and
they took her to the Mercy Hospital there in Portsmouth, Ohio. She died within a couple
of days of being in the hospital. Everything seemed normal until one night about a month
or two after she died. We were watching Kraft Mystery Theater. It dealt with a town
being flooded and people being trapped in a house in the flood. I remember that vividly.
My mom and my sister were there. My mom was sitting in a chair, my sister was lying on
the couch, and I was lying in front of the TV on the floor. We all of a sudden heard a
crash. My mother was later to tell me it sounded just like the night that Aunt (Doll?) fell.
Anyhow, my sister and I jumped up and were running toward our mom, our mom picked
us up and we were now running out of the house. As we ran out of the house, our
neighbors across the street were running toward us. We met right there in the center of
the street. The people told us that they saw a light on up in my Aunt Doll’s room and saw
a shadow, as though it was my Aunt Doll which they were accustomed to, because she
had like a sand-brown colored blind that she’d pull down at night and she’d sit by that in
her rocker and rock. The night that she died she did the same thing. Anyhow, the people
saw what appeared to be her getting up and falling, and then the lights went out. This was
very reminiscent of the night that she had her fall that ultimately led to her death.
We went back into the house and one woman from across the street told her husband,
“Why don’t you go on upstairs and we’ll follow you and see what’s going on?” He was
stating, no he wasn’t going to do this. There was a girl that I know that I hung around
with a lot at that time, and her name was Bonnie Moore. I got a big stick and she and I
decided that we would go up and try to find out what happened up there, what made the
noise. We went up but we could find nothing at all that could explain the noise.
Everything was in its place as the day they took my aunt to the hospital. Nothing had
changed. People started talking about it being a token or an omen, but we were never able
to ascertain what that was.
Nothing very much happened after that except that you could year my aunt from time to
time, a disembodied voice which she would call to my mother by calling “Ollie.” You
would hear footsteps in the room when no one was there. My dad didn’t believe anything
like this could take place, then one night he had an event. With him having that event,
within a matter of two weeks we got another place. Ironically, this was 1906 11th Street.
We moved there, and I continued with second grade. During the summer, not very many
events happened.
But then one summer, the summer of 1957, something happened during a game of
baseball with a friend of mine, a guy by the name of Michael Eubanks. I went to his
house at roughly ten o’clock in the morning to see if he was up and if he was ready to
play a game of ball. I was knocking on the door and calling his name from his back door.
Now behind his back yard was an alley, and behind that was a very large, about four or
five story, storage building. I heard a whirling sound, like the high-pitched sound that an
electrical generator makes. I looked around to try to find where that sound was coming
from. As I looked over the storage building, there was a small white opaque disc with an
inner ring and an outer ring. The inner ring was going clockwise, the outer ring was going
counterclockwise.
I watched this come over the building and it very gracefully glided over his house. I ran
around to the front to see if I could see anything. It was no longer in my vision. I looked
across the street. I was well aware that other people across the street had seen something.
They were looking into the sky. I ran home to tell my mom and dad what I saw. They
said it was just my active imagination. Some of the people across the street told my dad
what they had seen, but still he wanted to downplay it. He did not want to believe I saw
anything. He didn’t want me to look crazy because I had already started talking about
these things that were taking place.
With that event, something very unusual started to come into my life. At night, I would
wake up with a fear that I could not describe. I spent four years in Viet Nam. I saw
combat while I was in Viet Nam, and I know that fear. I don’t know of any other fear that
can surmount that. But this fear was even greater than that.
What I saw was, I guess you could say along the lines of what they refer to as the “old
hag” phenomenon. And that is you’d wake up in the middle of the night with the fear you
couldn’t explain why you had this fear, but you were wide awake. You would see the
figure of a dark entity or a dark object on your chest. You couldn’t move. A lot of times,
my head would be to my right, and through the corner of my eye I could catch a glimpse
of it. I was fighting for all that I had in me to break free of whatever was holding me
down. Eventually, you would be free, but you couldn’t go back to sleep. You’d have this
cold sweat and you’d have this unreasonable fear that whatever was there could still be
there. In all probability it was there, but you couldn’t see it. I had several episodes of this.
Later, I would find that it wasn’t just a paralysis that occurred at night. One night I got to
see the face of the entity, and it was a real pale grey, very much like the storybook witch
like you would see in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, with the long pointy nose.
Even the cackling laugh was there. And I mention the cackling laugh because the only
time I heard that was one day when I was playing hide and seek in the house with my
sister, because it was raining outside. I hid behind the couch, and then I looked up to see
if my sister was coming. We had one of those grand pianos on the side as you entered the
living room. As I looked up, peeping out from behind the grand piano was this creature
that I had seen many times at night. This was the first time I saw it during the day. It
looked out at me and it just had this hellish laugh.
I immediately jumped out from where I was hiding and ran into the kitchen, once again
wanting to hide. My mom was in the hospital at this time, and my Aunt Win was taking
care of us. Now my Aunt Win hated me after that day because she tried to set me on a
chair in the kitchen and make me set there. I didn’t want to set there, I wanted to run and
hide. When my mom got out of the hospital, I started crying, begging my mom and dad to
take me to see a doctor because the doctor could make the monsters go away.
I didn’t want to see what I was seeing. Yet I was doomed to see these things. I didn’t
know who to talk to because no one was listening. And then one day, still 1957, still the
summer, I went up to Kelso’s Drugs on the corner of 11th Street, and I ran into a
uniformed Air Force captain. I was trying to buy a copy of the magazine that came out of
UFOs. It was released by True Magazine, and because True Magazine was identified as a
men’s magazine, I couldn’t buy it, I was too young. So not being able to buy it, arguing
with the cashier that I should be able to buy it, it was about UFOs, there was nothing else
in there. But he was not going to let me buy it because it was a men’s magazine. Captain
Brown stepped up behind me and said, “Do you have an interest in UFOs too?” I looked
up and saw that he was a captain, and I said, “Yes, Sir.” He said, “Well, so do I,” and he
went up to the counter and said, “I’ll take two of these magazines.”
So he bought two. And we went over and sat down at a booth there, and he said, “Do you
like root beer floats?” I’d never had a root beer float. Personally, I didn’t think I’d ever
like it. Root beer is okay by itself, ice cream is okay by itself. But not mixed in the same
glass. Anyhow, he got us two root beer floats and said, “You don’t have to drink it if you
don’t like it.” So I found out that I liked root beer floats. I also felt good because here was
a person in uniform, a captain no less, in the Air Force, who was listening intently to
what I had to say about the events that have happened in my life. He was able to
understand that there was a fear element there, but he was trying to reassure me that I had
nothing to be afraid of.
Then, when we got up to leave, he said, “Well I got one of these magazines for you, but I
have to check with your parents first and see if it’s okay, if you can have this.” We went
along to my home and he introduced himself to my mother. He talked to my mom, when
my dad got home from work he talked to him. He was trying to make them understand
that while there was no evidence that UFOs exist, there were strange things happening,
and that I may have a key to certain information that they don’t fully understand. So we
became very good friends.
From that time on, Captain Brown would remain a captain, which I wouldn’t know until
after I got into the military, for far too long as a captain. Prior to getting into the military,
allegedly Captain Brown was killed in the crash of a (T33?).
From this event, I started to see these little creatures that looked very human to me, they
looked very much like little children, and I identified them as my playmates. Then an
event took place where I always had a love of animals. The girl I mentioned earlier,
Bonnie Moore and myself, we’d go through a wooded area at the back of her place and
find insects and animals, and try to nurse them back to health if they were injured. We
didn’t know that insects were supposed to be something bad, that people weren’t
supposed to like grasshoppers. But we would always try to find little birds that needed
help, sparrows, pigeons, even some of the wildlife that was in the creek there. Once we
got them back to where they seemed like they could be on their own, we’d then go ahead
and release them.
Anyhow, while we were living at 11th Street, I found this little bird that fell out of its nest.
I tried to go ahead and nurse it back to life. Its beak was broken and it was screaming, I
assume it was in a lot of pain. To a little kid, if you have a cut, you hold it under water. I
held this little bird, whose beak was bleeding, under water, and I accidentally drowned it.
Now at that time, I was always taught that grown men don’t cry. One of the virtues you
didn’t have, being a male, was the right to express emotion. You were not to feel these
things. It was just a bird. I found myself thinking about this mom and dad missing it,
what a terrible thing I had done, I had killed this little bird. One of the creatures that I had
always identified as a little child because they look human, now I got to see for the first
time what it really looked like. Eventually, I had a person come here who was an artist
and worked for the Franklin Mint. He drew a picture of it and gave it to me, based on my
description I gave to him. I saw my little creature now for the first time as it really
looked. First I was taken aback, but I can’t say I was really afraid, because I was used to
knowing this creature. Immediately the questions started coming into my head, very
rapidly. Why was I feeling remorse? Why did I have water in my eyes from killing a
smaller version of an animal that we used as food? Why did I have these emotions? The
entity even told me that he could feel the emotions that I felt. From that day on, I would
have, at his pleasure, interactions with this entity, who would later tell me that his name
was Corona.
I could never, ever understand why these events took place, but now more and more
events were taking place. I was seeing more and more UFOs. I was having more and
more interaction with entities, not just Corona, that looked very human to me. Again, that
could be my perception. I’ll be leaving a lot out as we head up to the time I get to the
military here, simply because there’s just too much to cover here, but I’m trying to recall
all that did happen to me.
After this event, we moved back to Boston, Ohio. We lived in a duplex that had two
homes on both sides, and it had two apartments upstairs. When we moved back there,
everything went pretty normal for a couple of months. Then we were playing and it was
getting dark. Larry Stevens, my cousin, Delbert Hudson and myself, we were playing and
it was getting dark. The sun had set, Michael Dunham and myself were in my back yard,
playing army. All of a sudden we looked up over the hill and there was this big, bright
light. Once again, the yellowish color was coming over the hill. It got to where it was
maybe a forty-five degree arc from where we were standing, looking up. Then there was
a small beam of white light starting to come down from the object. Immediately the
object itself took on a bright white light appearance. The light would just shoot down a
little and go back, shoot down a little and go back, down a little and go back. It seemed
like it was getting closer to us, and I told Mike to go around to the front. My recollection
was stopping, looking back at the light, then turning and running down the area between
my house and my neighbor’s house, which would have only taken a couple of seconds.
Going down around to the front, I was told by Delbert and Mike that actually, forty-five
minutes or so had passed. What had been a little after eight pm was now a little before
nine. I found that very incomprehensible, because all I remembered was looking back at
the light, it was still coming closer, and then running around to the front. What actually
happened, I don’t know. That’s the only recollection that I have of the light.
The next week or so, I was still having the interaction off and on with these little entities,
still talking to my friends about it. They couldn’t understand it, they couldn’t see them.
But then one day while we were playing in the garage at the back of our house, we turned
it into a clubhouse. Some of the entities showed up there. Immediately all the doors and
windows were locked. Delbert came over and as he came over he looked up. For the first
time, he now saw an entity, a creature, looking back, looking down towards him. He felt
that there were other people there with me and that I might be in danger, so he came and
knocked on the front door and yelled, “Hey, Cliff, open up!”
I said, “I can’t right now, go away, I’ll come and find you as soon as I take care of some
stuff here.”
He said, “Open up! Who’s in there with you?”
I said, “No one’s in here with me.”
“I saw him, I know you’re not alone in there.”
The entity that was with me was telling me, you need to tell him to leave. I was being
shown some things, some instruments, for lack of a better term, and the capabilities of
those instruments. Things that we eventually would get into, things that we eventually
would turn into weapons, and that would not be good for our civilization. I now know
some of the things that I saw not like what they showed me, but like we have developed
those very same technologies into weapons. Did we acquire it from them? I don’t know. I
like to think that through man’s ingenuity, through man’s perseverance, through man’s
own wisdom and knowledge, he evolved to that level where he was able to manipulate
those sciences to where he understood the physical principles of developing these
weapons. I’d like to think that they are for the betterment of mankind, but that isn’t
necessarily so. But I’m getting ahead of myself again.
Delb went and got my mother, who came in and told me that she insisted I open the door.
I told her that, “Mom, I can’t do it right now, please just go away.” They didn’t want to
leave. All of a sudden, things started to – I don’t know how to put this – fade out. Delb
came in through the window, and that was kind of interesting, because we had a sink
there on the side where he came in, and it broke. Water was running all over the place. I
was worried about him coming in because I was told, “If anyone sees too much, we will
have to kill them.” I didn’t want to see any of my friends die. I picked up a 2 x 4 and tried
to hit this creature, and it just smiled and said, “well, we don’t really want to hurt anyone.
Just give us a couple more seconds and we won’t be here. It’ll be like we were never
here.”
Delbert got in and opened the door, my mom came in, four or five of the other kids came
in, and I couldn’t explain to them. I told Delbert, I’ll tell you later. But he kept insisting,
“There was a man there, there was a man there.” To him, it looked like men. But these
events were to continue throughout my childhood.
All this leads into some crucial questions that I think we’re not going to get into because
we just don’t have enough time, and my friend on the other side of the camera probably
doesn’t have enough tape. We view UFOs as something that’s mystifying. We as a
species, I think, love to be afraid. We love to hear ghost stories, we love to have stories
that put goose pimples up and down our back. Therefore, we’re totally removed outside
of listening to these stories, like somebody goes and they talk, much like myself, telling
about experiences they have had. The person who sees a UFO come off the street, or the
person who sees the entities – it’s no longer fun and games for these people, because
these people have touched the outer rim of the unknown. They have come in contact with
something that defies their rational explanation. They have come in contact with
something that has literally changed their lives forever. But those of us who sit back and
marvel, and wonder, and think along the lines of “What if?” See, flying saucers, I can
accept. UFOs, I can accept. But the entities, I can’t. Now believe it or not, in early
history, in NICAP, it was perfectly okay with NICAP, the National Investigations
Committee on Aerial Phenomena, that was headed up by the late Donald Keyhoe of the
United States Marine Corps, it was perfectly okay with him and the board of directors
who were high-ranking government officials, to see a silvery disc or to see a cigar-shaped
object. What wasn’t okay was to see the entities. There were very few reports, and of
course you had what were called the contactees at that time, people who reported having
contact with UFOs and the entities within it. Some people might say, oh, are you a
contactee? No, there’s a big difference. There is a big, big difference. Now, the
abductees, are they along the lines of the contactees? No, they are not. Because most
abductees have no idea what’s going on. Channeling? Channeling has its part there, but
then again, channeling played a lot in what we were doing. As a matter of fact, even in
the CIA’s operations with remote viewing, military intelligence investigations with
remote viewing, using people who could see things from a distance, who could readily
pick up on things from a distance; these were things that we take as commonplace. The
CIA even said that their program as far as remote viewing was 85% accurate. But here
again, a lot of people sat back, said, “Interesting stories” and go on with their daily life.
You see me on this video, you hear me on the radio, although that was an interesting
story, you say well, I better get ready for work tomorrow, gotta do this, gotta do that, and
it’s forgotten. But the events that I lived will be with me till the day I die.
It was my intention to never speak openly about the aspects that I was personally
involved in. It was my intention never to talk about these events. It was also my intention
to try to get people to ask questions to the point where Congress would ask for an
accounting of the US Intelligence community on the real evidence that is out there, that
isn’t necessarily classified. It’s the tip of the iceberg. The Titanic saw the tip of the
iceberg, and I’m sure that some of the people on the Titanic thought they were going to
clear it. What they didn’t see was the nine-tenths or more of the object that was under the
water. Well, we have the physical evidence, the tip of the iceberg. It’s that nine-tenths
that’s still hidden by bureaucratic red tape and government secrecy, and I don’t just mean
US government, other governments also, that we have to expose. And then we’ll never
have to ask the question, are we alone in the universe?
The one thing I found out a long time ago is that we’re not asking the right questions. I
found when I am on a talk show, the questions are, what do they look like? What do their
craft look like? Well, let’s take an F-4 Phantom. What does an F-4 Phantom look like?
I’m going to tell you right now, even though it’s an F-4 Phantom, there are many
different configurations of that aircraft. By virtue of that, if you take one of the several
dozen configurations of that aircraft and give it to me, if it’s not the right one I’m looking
for, I can discount that you know what you’re talking about. However, you may know
very much what you’re talking about, it’s just that you gave me a different configuration
than the one that I’m looking for.
So it is with their craft. So it is with their people. Describe an American to me. You ask a
hundred people, you’re going to get a hundred different answers. You ask ten thousand
people that, you’re going to get ten thousand different answers. I say this, you have the
configurations already out there. You have what the various species look like. They’re
already out there. But what are the critical questions that I say never come up?
It’s this: what are the living, breathing creatures really like? Well, they’re very much like
us. They have a social structure. They have politics. They have likes and dislikes. They
have religion. Oh yes, they believe in a god. They’re not going to come here and tell us
that we have to change our religions, because they can’t really tell you which religion is
right. They have come across this belief, much like we did, by seeking out, is there a
god? Their scientific capabilities finally led them to conclude that there definitely was.
Their scientific capabilities brought about their understanding that there is life after death.
Even machines to which there is communication. But there are forbidden questions, and
if you bring up specific questions during this communication, the contact will be broken.
I was warned of this after a (craft?) became up on me. After that (craft?) and I believe it
was covered up as to the real events that happened on this particular night that changed
my life forever, I decided my family had a right to know why I couldn’t be open with my
family, why I was closed, why I was distant. And they do know. This right here will help
them understand a little bit more.
From the late seventies to the time I got out, which was February 1, 1990, the effective
date of my retirement from the army, I very subtly and behind the scenes tried to get
information out dealing with UFOs, trying to use the expertise that I had in the military to
paint a picture of the yellow brick road, so to speak, to lead other people who were
actively involved in UFO research to the wizard. He wouldn’t be like the proverbial
wizard in the Wizard of Oz, who would be just a man behind a curtain, but a man that
had a whole lot of knowledge. I refer to a man, but I mean a group of people, a small
group of people in the Intelligence sector. And these men could go ahead and let the
people know the things that I just alluded to, in great detail. I was trying to do this by
exposing the tip of the iceberg, to lead the people to understand about that nine-tenths
that was still kept from the public. Things I couldn’t talk to my family about, but my
family was astutely aware of the fact that I was involved in UFO research, as you shall
see shortly.
I went after all the documentation, seeking those ultimate documents that would once and
for all expose at least the tip of what we really know. I do believe we have those
documents now. But the event that was to change my life occurred on the night of August
18, 1995, but I have to go back two days because this involves things that happened with
one of my sons.
On August 16, 1995, I was sitting at my computer. I was working on some aspects of
some of the things I was planning to go forward with. I was getting ready to write to
some people within the government and say, Look, I’ve been there, I’ve done this, I’ve
done that. Help me get these documents, I know they exist. Here’s the location where
they are. One of those is a file dealing with Roswell. I can tell you tonight where it’s at,
and I can tell you tonight that there’s a unit that has it. I can tell you tonight that when the
Army and the Air Force separated, there’s a detachment that got that. I can’t identify the
Air Force detachment that even got that file. It wasn’t destroyed, it was just put deeper
and deeper into the dark, not to be exposed at this time.
But anyhow, my son, Robert Stone, he came in while I was working there at my
computer and he saw what I was doing and that it was taking a lot of money. My family
could never understand why I was doing what I was doing. And my family got to see a
lot of strange people come here. A lot of these people were from the government, and
others were UFO researchers.
One night when I had some people here from the government, we had some very
sensitive documents out and my kids weren’t supposed to come home. I heard the door
open and I met my kids with a .45 in my hand. US Government issue, 1911. That gives
you a strange feeling, it makes you feel really weird. But we had to protect those
documents. Anyhow, my son said, “Dad, I’m gonna go ahead and help you in any way I
can. This payday, I’m going to give you half of my check because I know this is
important to you and I don’t know why.”
I said, “Son, I can’t tell you, I love you, God forgive me, I can’t tell you why this is so
important to me. I can’t even begin to tell you what I really did when I was in the
military.” For the first time I told one of my kids, “If I told you what I did, you would
think your old dad is crazy. But this is something I have to do.”
Well, I worked nights at that time, I was working security and I had the night shift. So I
went out and went to work. He tried to get into my computer and show people what I was
trying to do, but he couldn’t get into where it was because I had those particular floppy
discs hidden. The next night, he was having problems with the brakes on his car, and I
told him to go ahead and see how much it cost to get them fixed, and your mother and I
will help you, because right now that’s more important. And he said, “Dad, I made you a
promise, I’m going to give you that money and maybe next week or the week after, when
I get paid, then we’ll take care of the brakes.” I said, “Let’s get those brakes fixed first.”
When I got ready to leave, I said, “Well, I’ll see you tomorrow, son.”
He said, “Yeah, Dad, I’ll see you tomorrow. I’ll be working late, but when I get off, I’ll
see you sometime tomorrow night.”
I said, I love you, son. He said, I love you too, Dad.
That was the last time I saw my son alive.
The next night, I was working nights for Burns Security, out at the mall. This was August
18, 1995. I was supposed to be out there at four. I had this dread going to work, I didn’t
want to go to work. My son was working where my wife worked. He wanted to go off
and be with his friends. My wife and I got into an argument, and I said, “I wish you
wouldn’t let him go. I just feel that something isn’t right.” But I couldn’t put my finger
on it.
I finally wound up going to work, and for the first time in my life, I was late going to
work. Almost two hours late, for no reason, it was just that dread of going in. But when I
got there, I hadn’t been there more than about fifteen minutes or so, we had some kids, it
was a Friday night and we always had kids at the mall so we had some problems with
them. All of my guards were busy.
Along about eight o’clock we got word that there was an accident out in front of the mall.
They wanted one guard to go up there to see if there was anything we could do to assist
the police or anything. I tried to get my other guard to go, but I couldn’t get no other
guards to go. I was the one who was going to have to go. I took one of our maintenance
people, in case we needed to go ahead and block of any of the area there leading into the
mall. On our way up there, Chris, the maintenance person I took with me, said, “What’s
the matter, you seem tense?”
I said, “Chris, I’m scared to death I’m going to get up here and find one of my kids
dead.”
He said, “Oh, Stoney, it’s only two trucks that collided,” because there were two pickups
that pulled over. We got up there and I didn’t see anything but the two pickups with a
crowd of people standing around all over the road, and I was thinking, well, this could
just be a fender bender, just like my friend Chris said. And I turned to a woman who was
standing there crying and asked her if she was okay, and she said, yes.
I said, “Was anyone hurt in this accident?” and she said, “The man on the motorcycle was
killed.” I said, “A motorcycle?” and I knew then that I had one of my children lying over
there. So I told the police officer that my son has a motorcycle that looks just like that
one. And he said, well, how old is your son? I said, Nineteen.
He said, “The person over there is at least thirty-five or forty years old.” And I still
couldn’t believe that, and I said, “No no, look, it’s a unique-looking motorcycle, and I’m
telling you that’s not the case.” And he said, “Okay, how tall is your son?” I said, “He’s
five eleven.” He goes over, and then comes back and says, “This person’s five-six, fiveseven.”
So finally, I turned and started to go over there and one of the police officers was
telling me to get back, get back, get back. So I told him, “Look, if you have to shoot me,
you shoot me, but I’m going to go over and find out which one of my sons is dead.” I
went on over and I found out it was Bob.
I can’t explain to you how I felt. No words can explain that type of emotion. But you’re
numb. No tears, no nothing at that time, only a sense of obligation and duty. I came back
at three-thirty that morning to write a report and put it in the files, because that was my
job. I wanted to start to leave and one of the police officers said, “Are you okay, are you
okay?” And I said, “No, I’m not okay, I just identified the remains of one of my children.
How can I be okay?” He said, “Well, where are you going? What are you going to be
doing?” I said, “I need to go and tell my wife what happened.” So he took me to tell my
wife and this becomes a very complex story to go into it too awful far.
It would take several hours even to get to the point where I believe that there’s a cover
up, but let me tell you, I do believe. I do believe, and if anyone wants to come here and
sit down and spend a couple hours with me, I’ll show you why I believe it was a cover up
to this day. But that, then and there, made me know that I had a moral obligation to tell
my family what I was doing and why I wasn’t there. Why the little things, like the games
and stuff, why I wasn’t there. Why I couldn’t tell them, why I was so defensive. And that
was because of the things I was involved with, with UFOs.
So I told my family, and I found out my wife had already told some of the things.
Because, see when you’re involved in this, for lack of a better term, you have flashbacks.
The VA doesn’t recognize those flashbacks, because they’re not supposed to exist. But
you’d have the nightmares, because you tell your family goodbye, and you didn’t know
whether you’d be coming back. You didn’t know whether your number was up. It was
peacetime, but people couldn’t understand that. To this day, they can’t understand why, if
I’m asked to go give a talk, I want my wife to go with me. I can’t explain it, it’s just a
carryover from those days. Because I don’t know if I’m saying goodbye for the last time.
Of course, that falls with all of us, but we don’t – it’s very deep rooted with me. Very
deep rooted with me. And I know there will be some people who see it in these tapes
here. It’s very deep rooted with them, and they have the same nightmares. We share the
same nightmares, and they need to tell their families about what they went through.
Hopefully, we’ll get to the point where they can talk about the various things they had
within their societies. And I’m hoping we’ll have enough time to relate what is to me, a
really beautiful story.
One of them that I was really attached to, and I’ll go so far as to tell you that yes, he was
green. That’s taboo in the UFO field, but he had a greenish-tinted skin. I wish I could tell
you that he was grey, but I can’t do that, because he wasn’t. It would make it much easier
for a lot of the people in the field to swallow.
I went to California in 1996. I visit my son’s grave every day. Today is July 1, 2000. My
wife does the same thing. Being in California for three or four days, I didn’t get to go
there. And I felt guilty all the time. Because he’s lying there in his grave, and I was
thinking, well I wonder if he’s lonely, and I was wondering if his feet were cold, ‘cause
he always would say about his feet being cold. Well when I got back, my wife knew the
first thing I wanted to do without me saying anything. She picked me up at the airport,
and she took me out to the cemetery. We went ahead, both of us, we cried and we prayed,
and then we came home. We stayed up and talked, went to bed that night about eleven
o’clock.
I woke up a little after twelve. My wife was still asleep and I started to lie back down. A
very soft, gentle voice spoke. And I don’t care if people call me crazy, or what, but the
living God knows that what I’m telling is the truth. There was my little entity. And he
told me, I feel your hurt and pain. And I said, you know, I sometimes wonder why God
lets things like this happen. Sometimes it even makes you wonder if there is a God. He
made a little effort to smile. He knew why I said that. He said, do you really believe that?
And I said, you know I don’t. I just don’t understand why God let this happen. And he
said, would you like to see your son? And I said, yeah, I would. So he said, okay, we’re
going to arrange that. But remember this: you will remember everything this side of the
veil. You will remember nothing if you pierce the veil and what takes place back there.
So I said, the veil. And he says, that veil which you call Heaven. That veil which you and
your kind call Heaven.
I then lay back down, still fully awake. It was like something happened, all of a sudden I
was no longer here. I was in a place that I could hear things going on like a buzz saw all
around me, but I couldn’t see anything. Then I heard my son calling out to me, “Dad?”
and I went to see him. And we hugged one another, then there was this moment when it
was just dark. We went through the other side, and I couldn’t remember anything. The
next thing I remembered was when we came out of it, and we said our goodbyes. I said,
“I love you, Son,” and he said, “I love you too, Dad.” All of a sudden there was a sharp
pain right on the top of my head. I was back in my body. I looked up and the clock said
3:40. I started to lie back down and I saw this yellowish light sphere like the cartoon
feature of the man in the moon and it kept getting closer and closer to the bed. It had a
real sinister look on its face. And a voice sounded in my head, “We could kill you,” very
sinister, very evil. Then another voice, one I had never heard before, said, “No harm shall
come to this man.” Then it was like molten hot lava, molten hot metal, like if you’ve ever
seen the inside of a steel mill, it dropped down. Nothing hit the floor, it just melted and
faded away. And the same voice said, “Rest.”
I lay back down. It would be 9:30 or 10:00 before I woke back up. I remembered it. I
went around all day trying to make heads or tails out of what happened. It wasn’t a
dream. It wasn’t a dream at all. They did this using their science. It wasn’t an illusion, it
wasn’t something they made me see to make me feel better. There will be people who say
that this is all the Devil’s work. No, it’s not. Nothing that beautiful could be of the Devil.
Nothing that beautiful could be evil. But this face that appeared, I have no idea what
that’s all about. I have no idea. But this is what made me decide I wanted to tell what was
happening.
Now one question I have to ask myself every day is, because of my involvement in this,
because of me trying to talk out, because of my – for lack of a better term, cockiness in
trying to get people to look closer at the evidence that is there – was there an effort to
scare me by doing something that would threaten the family and it went terribly wrong?
As a result, my son gave his life for the sins of his dad.
This ends my story this far. Next we’ll look at some of the evidence I’ve been talking
about in paper form.
The evidence that is out there consists of paper trails. The Air Force says they’re no
longer interested in UFOs, yet UFOs have not gone away. You no longer have to rely on
reports from the man in the street. I’m talking about reports from various countries
around the world that are seeing things, various countries that have come out and stated
that there is something to UFOs. There is some type of flying device that actually is
penetrating the air spaces of the countries of the world that show intelligent control.
On the morning of December 7, 1941, approximately three hundred unidentified targets
were picked up by radar. The people working the radar, which was relatively new at that
time, informed Lieutenant Taylor, who was the duty officer for that day, that they had
three hundred targets coming in from, I believe it was the west. Lieutenant Taylor stated,
“Well, we’ve got some planes coming in, so just don’t worry about it. We’ve got some B-
17’s coming in.” Which was true, there were about fourteen B-5’s that were coming in
from the mainland. They arrived in the midst of the battle.
Those few precious minutes, from the time radar picked up the incoming aircraft, had we
reacted at that time, the guns on board the ship, the guns on the shoreline, the guns that
the troops would have had available to them, would have been emptied. Rounds would
have been in those craft. The Japanese would have suffered a great loss. They’d have lost
more than twenty-nine of their aircraft, and two two-man submarines. But we did not
heed those radar sights; we did not take the appropriate action. That would have entirely
changed the course of history had we heeded that warning. The end result was, after the
attack on Pearl Harbor, we would never ever be caught by a technological surprise again.
So the documentation exists. You take that documentation, you realize right off the bat
that there are things going on that are reflected in those documents. Anyone who sits back
and thinks we say, oh well, yeah, this happened, but we’re not really worried about it
because no bombs were dropped, no cities were attacked, no casualties were made
amongst our forces or the forces and countries where these events occur. No. And we still
try to find the answers. The problem is, among the nations of the world, there is a small
elite group in each and every country that works in unison amongst the countries to
ensure that this information is digested and see if there are any bits and pieces of
information we can add to the knowledge we already had, the knowledge we know to be
true. We are not alone in the universe, and we have visitors from other planets coming
here to this planet. We are being observed on a daily basis.
Now, these right here are rolls of microfilm. Ninety-four rolls like this make up Project
Blue Book. Most people have never seen what’s in these files. What you hear about, and
what people say about these files, once you get to see them and read them, you then
realize that there’s a whole lot in there that clearly points that even Blue Book had to
conclude there was something; although by regulation, they had to reduce the number of
the unknowns. Therefore, possibles and probables were being used to identify probably
aircraft, meteors, atmospheric phenomena. They would then be no longer possible or
probable. There are over seven hundred unknown Blue Book files. Today people say that
if we had more information, we could identify those. Well, you had three categories in
Blue Book. You had Identified, Insufficient Data, and Unknown. If all the data wasn’t
there that would allude to some type of plausible conclusion being reached, it would be
considered an Insufficient Data case. Those cases that were identified as Unknowns had
all the data there that a reasonable conclusion, if there was one, could have been reached.
But after careful analysis, none could. These were the cases they couldn’t hide. These
were the cases that they had no choice but to call Unknown.
These files right here are part of the administrative files of Project Blue Book. Briefings,
or Congressionals, were an effort to try to get started. Efforts were made to ensure that
these Congressionals never got off the ground, assertive efforts behind closed doors.
There were briefings that were given. There were documents drawn up to assist in
identifying UFOs. This document clearly shows that certain phenomena could be
identified as UFOs from time to time, so as to eliminate those and then leave you with
only the true unknowns. So this document was utilized.
There were briefings, there were Special Reports, the Scientific Advisory Board of the
US Air Force, the status reports. All of these documents are important, and the American
people should read them. The American people should have access to these documents.
Although they closed Blue Book and said that they could not draw any official
conclusion outside of that UFOs did not represent a threat to our national security, these
was something that they were already able to ascertain in the first year of UFO research.
But there are many more documents after the closure of Blue Book, on December 17,
1969. That did not end our interest in UFOs, that was just the beginning. To this day, we
still have documentation dealing with UFOs. We initially said it was only the Air Force
that was involved. It wasn’t just the Air Force. Every branch, every Intelligence branch
within the US Government, was gathering information on UFOs. What we see in
documents that we get today is the raw field data. That raw field data is taken
somewhere, and it is being formulated into what’s called a finalized intelligence product.
That finalized intelligence product is then given to what we call customers in the
intelligence community.
This is a room where I do a lot of work with my computer in back of me, and once again,
more file cabinets. The file cabinets are loaded with various types of documents. Starting
over here on my left, we have UFO documents from the FBI and from the Department of
Defense. These right here are some of the very good FBI documents. For example, in the
Project Blue Book files there are certain documents dealing with Project Twinkle you’re
not going to find. But they’re here if they were in the FBI documents. You find out that
with the FBI documents, there was a tremendous amount of concern about UFO sightings
over a nuclear facility at Oak Ridge. Things were going on there. You find out that there
are radar cases in the FBI files which the Air Force tries to say wasn’t there. You also
find out that some documents show that while the Air Force was telling the American
public that there’s nothing to UFOs, high-ranking officials within the Air Force involved
in UFO investigations were actually concerned with some UFOs being extraterrestrial
spacecraft. Other cases along that line are in here, I haven’t gotten them marked yet.
(end of tape)